Could this help films without an anti-halation layer?

[slashmaster]

Been trying to think of ways to make a better film. For films that do not have an anti-halation layer I'm wondering if having a rear gate that is less reflective would help? The plastic gate of a super 8 cartridge is very shiny so tried painting one flat black for practice (even though it was already cracked open for processing). The gate of a bolex is already flat from the factory but could surely be made even flatter. What do you guys think? What does the rear gate of a really high end ARRi, Aaton or Mitchel look like?

Here are pics of my painting.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... ploaded=10

[Mmechanic]

You’re not the first to spend thought on that subject. It’s as old as wet (glass) plate photography. Lacquers were tried, velvet backs, died glass of course, open space behind the plate, almost everything.

When you make a very flat pressure plate with a very smooth surface you encounter the phenomenon of adhesion. The film’s plastic is glossy enough to form an air-free contact with the back plate. That ist not wanted.

Back plates don’t need to be glossy. A black velvet pad can be useful, they are employed with printers from time to time.

[slashmaster]

You’re not the first to spend thought on that subject. It’s as old as wet (glass) plate photography. Lacquers were tried, velvet backs, died glass of course, open space behind the plate, almost everything.

When you make a very flat pressure plate with a very smooth surface you encounter the phenomenon of adhesion. The film’s plastic is glossy enough to form an air-free contact with the back plate. That ist not wanted.

Back plates don’t need to be glossy. A black velvet pad can be useful, they are employed with printers from time to time.

Yeah, I'll bet the open space behind the film would work best as long as everything behind it was black. Been thinking about drilling out and filing out a hole in that removable bolex gate then having a box behind it to keep light out of the camera. What does your Beaulieu look like on the gate? You know that removable chrome pressure plate you can get that you add to a super 8 cartridge? I wonder how one of those with a hole cut behind the aperture would do?

[Mmechanic]

Just out of curiosity, which film stock without halo protection do you have in mind for use in Super-8 cartridges? I can follow your idea with 16mm film but not with Super-8.

[slashmaster]

Just out of curiosity, which film stock without halo protection do you have in mind for use in Super-8 cartridges? I can follow your idea with 16mm film but not with Super-8.

Tri-x is like that right? I already processed some as a negative and only put in developer, rinsed, fixer, rinsed and dried. I didn't have to do a messy job scrubbing off an anti-halation layer.

[Mmechanic]

Mmm, nope.

Tri-X reversal has a base dyed in the mass. A grey base is most common with negative films such as Kodak Tri-X for making prints from. Excessive light is enough attenuated on its travel twice through the coloured base to be innocuous.

Pardon me, it’s gray in American English.

[slashmaster]

Mmm, nope.

Tri-X reversal has a base dyed in the mass. A grey base is most common with negative films such as Kodak Tri-X for making prints from. Excessive light is enough attenuated on its travel twice through the coloured base to be innocuous.

Pardon me, it’s gray in American English.

Oh ok, I guess I was thinking only films with rem jet backing are anti-halation. So now that I know this, a dyed base is not going to be 100% effective right? Something very bright next to something very black could produce a glow on the black. Like the radiator grill of a car next to a lit headlight?

[Mmechanic]

You’re giving me hard times. It’s very effective. Don’t you think the film manufacturers would have changed something, if it wasn’t?

It’s fine to rethink things, it is even desirable and important. A good starting point is to integrate the existing and not loose it from sight. One can’t know everything but one can build upon common knowledge. Try to trust other people for a change. Only a little

[slashmaster]

You’re giving me hard times. It’s very effective. Don’t you think the film manufacturers would have changed something, if it wasn’t?

It’s fine to rethink things, it is even desirable and important. A good starting point is to integrate the existing and not loose it from sight. One can’t know everything but one can build upon common knowledge. Try to trust other people for a change. Only a little

Maybe you're right. Ya know, I was looking at the Logmar camera with that big box behind the gate wondering what's in it and if maybe it's just open space for that purpose. Never saw a camera with a box that big behind the gate like that. I guess it must just be for the pin registration cam.

[Mmechanic]

It is.