Give me the most extreme anything you can think of!

[slashmaster]

I want to see or hear about the most extreme anything for projectors or cameras. For example, if there are 16mm reels bigger than 2000 feet, or the lightest or most compact super 8 camera. Or the highest fps anyone has gotten from anything! I would also like to see the ugliest or best looking projectors or cameras. Or maybe the earliest or latest projectors or cameras. The highest fast forward speed anyone has on a projector. If it's extreme I want to see it. I'll start.


This is the cheapest junk I've seen so far, it has no rollers inside, the film just slides on these pieces of plastic with springs on them. It scratched up one of my films big time! http://webrevolutionary.com/price/img-l ... 882560.jpg

[bolextech]

That's funny you should say that, because it looks just like the ones used to make the Workprinter!

Cheers,
Jean-Louis

[Shanec8mm]

The photo you have provided here is of a Gaf projector. I personally do not like how they handle film. I've had 2 Gaf projectors destroy parts of my films. The best projectors I have used are the mid to late 60's Bell & Howell sprocket-less projectors. They are very gentle on films, and do not pull or tug on them. I have owned several models of these B&H's. The 471, and I currently use a 466 variable speed adjusted model that is fantastic to use. These maybe be the most underrated projectors out there. The 466 uses a very bright 150 watt bulb, and my lens is the F1.2 version. The sprocket-less design on these projectors is far superior to the Gaf design. Plus the B&H model I mentioned only uses one drive belt. The Gaf's use several. Just wanted to point this out. I hear people bashing B&H all the time. I have to wonder if they ever used the top of the line sprocket-less models from the 60's? Usually I just laugh and say nope. So if your hunting for a great projector look for the Bell & Howell models 456 and 466. Both use the 150 watt bulb option. Also a few use the F1.2 lens. You'll recognize the lens by the larger housing. The one in this photo is using the F1.2 lens. This is a 466 model as pictured.

[Shanec8mm]

I would also like to point out that the sprocket-less B&H projectors utilize a film transport system that allows the film to move more freely. I found the Gaf projectors film transport system was rather crude. If I was transferring peoples films for a living I would be afraid to run them through a Gaf. I would have no hesitation doing a transfer on a sprocket-less B&H model. The B&H's are also constructed of heavy metal while many of the Gaf models are of the cheap plastic variety.

[Shanec8mm]

As a side note I have run hours and hours of film through my B&H 466 and never has it eaten or destroyed any of my films. Nor has it scratched any of them. I use a silicone spray to lube the transport prior to projection that seems to further protect the films, and to keep the film path in good shape.

[slashmaster]

As a side note I have run hours and hours of film through my B&H 466 and never has it eaten or destroyed any of my films. Nor has it scratched any of them. I use a silicone spray to lube the transport prior to projection that seems to further protect the films, and to keep the film path in good shape.

Hey Shane, tell me something, is that your actual projector and reel? Do you actually use that reel? I have one of these http://www.mondofoto.com/cameras/BellAn ... ad-346.jpg with the same reel. A problem I'm having now is the automatic ring on that reel that grabs the sprocket holes slips too easy. I ran a 200 foot film yesterday and at the end of the film the ring was still slipping! Probably not too good for the edge of the film so I usually use that GAF reel with my B&H.

What are the rollers in your B&H made of? Plastic or Aluminum? How many Rollers does it have? Can you tell me about the variable speed, what frame rates will it do? It would be great if I could see one without the cover.

[slashmaster]

By the way, I think I just found another extreme. What must be the lightest super 8 camera in the world for model rockets http://www.rcgrabbag.com/archives/estes-cineroc-1970/#

[Shanec8mm]

I will try to answer some of your questions. No the projector in that photo was not mine, but I am including some photos here of my own projector. Yes I use the B&H auto-feed metal reel. I haven't had any problems with the auto-feed reel yet. There are a total of 8 rollers in the film path. 5 are aluminum, and the bottom 3 are plastic. As far as the frame rates I know my projector does 18, and 24 fps. There are also slower speeds. The speed knob on my projector does not have specific speeds rather you dial it from fast to slow. Starting at 24 it then moves slowly to 18, etc. I don't have the manual so I can't verify what I am saying is correct. I shoot all my movies at 18 fps, so I adjust the projector to where it looks most natural. I like that option really. Hope this helps. If you get a chance to buy a B&H model 466 grab it. Mine is the 466 B. Not sure what the difference is between the models in the 466 line up. Also these are easy to work on. There are 4 photos here showing my projector.

[MovieStuff]

I would also like to point out that the sprocket-less B&H projectors utilize a film transport system that allows the film to move more freely. I found the Gaf projectors film transport system was rather crude. If I was transferring peoples films for a living I would be afraid to run them through a Gaf. I would have no hesitation doing a transfer on a sprocket-less B&H model. The B&H's are also constructed of heavy metal while many of the Gaf models are of the cheap plastic variety.

How heavy the unit is has little relevance to how well it handles film since all super 8 cameras are lighter than any given projector. That said, the GAF projectors we employ in our telecine units are also made of metal and are elegantly simple though they did make some models that were infested with gears and did not work very well. But, like any projector, if it has not been kept up or serviced then it can give you problems. Considering they have not been made in over 30 years, it is highly unlikely that you used one that was brand new and I know of no one that rebuilds them or services them correctly other than us. Even if you got one that was unopened, it is unlikely to work correctly due to simple age, which is potentially true of most any projector. However, they are truly sprocketless, using an advance claw to move the film, and handle the film only by the edges. We use them in our WorkPrinters, Snipers and Sniper-HD units and, after we rebuild them and modify their transports, we have no issues with scratches or abrasions. This is why the Academy of Motion Picture Film Archives as well as the UCLA Film Archives entrusts their valuable collection to our units which use these very same projector chassis. The B&H chassis can work well, if it is rebuilt and maintained but can also damage film terribly if not. This is just par for the course when dealing with any kind of mechanical, intermittent film movement.

Roger

[slashmaster]

Thanks Shane, it's never scratched one of your films? Have you used it a lot? This is much better than the GAF but those autoload grooves scare me, I'm not sure I'd trust it. If it were mine I would saw all of that autoload off and thread it manually from then on. Does it use a DJL lamp?

[Shanec8mm]

Thanks Shane, it's never scratched one of your films? Have you used it a lot? This is much better than the GAF but those autoload grooves scare me, I'm not sure I'd trust it. If it were mine I would saw all of that autoload off and thread it manually from then on. Does it use a DJL lamp?

No I have not noticed any scratches. I lube the film path regularly and also I use silicone rags to lubricate the film itself. Plus Ektachrome is a thicker more durable film than say Kodachrome. The autoload has never given me a problem. The key is to use film leader, and also to make sure the end of the film leader is cut properly, this helps with loading the film. also I load the film slowly and try to keep the film as straight as possible. Once I hear the claw loading the film I know that all should be OK. If there was a problem in those first few seconds the film leader would get damaged first. I would never run film through a projector without film leader attached to the beginning and end.

[Shanec8mm]

I would also like to point out that the sprocket-less B&H projectors utilize a film transport system that allows the film to move more freely. I found the Gaf projectors film transport system was rather crude. If I was transferring peoples films for a living I would be afraid to run them through a Gaf. I would have no hesitation doing a transfer on a sprocket-less B&H model. The B&H's are also constructed of heavy metal while many of the Gaf models are of the cheap plastic variety.

How heavy the unit is has little relevance to how well it handles film since all super 8 cameras are lighter than any given projector. That said, the GAF projectors we employ in our telecine units are also made of metal and are elegantly simple though they did make some models that were infested with gears and did not work very well. But, like any projector, if it has not been kept up or serviced then it can give you problems. Considering they have not been made in over 30 years, it is highly unlikely that you used one that was brand new and I know of no one that rebuilds them or services them correctly other than us. Even if you got one that was unopened, it is unlikely to work correctly due to simple age, which is potentially true of most any projector. However, they are truly sprocketless, using an advance claw to move the film, and handle the film only by the edges. We use them in our WorkPrinters, Snipers and Sniper-HD units and, after we rebuild them and modify their transports, we have no issues with scratches or abrasions. This is why the Academy of Motion Picture Film Archives as well as the UCLA Film Archives entrusts their valuable collection to our units which use these very same projector chassis. The B&H chassis can work well, if it is rebuilt and maintained but can also damage film terribly if not. This is just par for the course when dealing with any kind of mechanical, intermittent film movement.

Roger

Thank you Roger for your input here. I should have said earlier that my experiences with Gaf projectors has not been good. I did not mean to imply all Gaf projectors are bad, sorry for making it sound that way. I did not have success with the last two Gaf projectors that I worked on. I replaced the belts but had issues with the film transport. Both projectors ate the film so badly the sprocket holes were totally destroyed. I had not seen this happen before when using a B&H sprocket-less projector. So since that experience I have avoided all Gaf models. However I will take your word for it that a properly running Gaf will be gentle on film.

[Shanec8mm]

Thanks Shane, it's never scratched one of your films? Have you used it a lot? This is much better than the GAF but those auto-load grooves scare me, I'm not sure I'd trust it. If it were mine I would saw all of that auto-load off and thread it manually from then on. Does it use a DJL lamp?

Yes it uses a DJL 150watt bulb. The guide rollers on top and bottom are designed to move and flex as the film is moving through the film path. As I said earlier these projectors are gentle on the film. The other B&H sprocket-driven transport actually scares me Ha Ha! I am not a fan of them. Here is an example of those kinds of B&H's. If the film hangs up the sprocket-drive auto-load eats the film pretty quickly.

[slashmaster]

Thanks Shane, it's never scratched one of your films? Have you used it a lot? This is much better than the GAF but those auto-load grooves scare me, I'm not sure I'd trust it. If it were mine I would saw all of that auto-load off and thread it manually from then on. Does it use a DJL lamp?

Yes it uses a DJL 150watt bulb. The guide rollers on top and bottom are designed to move and flex as the film is moving through the film path. As I said earlier these projectors are gentle on the film. The other B&H sprocket-driven transport actually scares me Ha Ha! I am not a fan of them. Here is an example of those kinds of B&H's. If the film hangs up the sprocket-drive auto-load eats the film pretty quickly.

Wow I never saw that one before, it has the same horrible autoload parts mine had. Of course it ate up and scratched film until I removed the autoload parts and it's now very similar to a manual load that looks like his http://www.astronomy-pictures.net/teles ... 936753.jpg My dad has had 3 B&H regular 8 manual load projectors like the one and including the one I just showed and they never gave a problem, in fact I wonder if I would have been better off making one of those regular 8's into a super 8 with the parts from the super 8.

[Shanec8mm]

The auto-load on my B&H 466 does not use a sprocket drive system, and that is why it doesn't eat or scratch the film. The film rides over the guide rollers, and through the film gate to the take up reel. Those earlier B&H's can do a lot of damage. A bad splice can cause a jam in those sprocket-driven models. I had a bad splice a few months ago and the only thing that happened was the film stopped and I was able to turn the projector off and repair the film. On the other models (sprocket-driven)the film probably would have continued to move forward as film coming into the gate began to back up, causing all sorts of problems.