800ASA (16mm) with 200ASA (super 8) ??

Post by **drsanchez** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:44 pm

(Sorry if it's posted before, but I couldn't find it.)

I have 100-feet of 16mm 800ASA stock. I wrote a 1-paragraph script (actually stole the idea from proust, but he's dead) as an excuse to shoot this film. I'll get 1 take for every shot and have to accept what I get, warts and all. But, I was thinking: what if disaster strikes and I have to shoot more than 100 feet? Would it be possible to intercut some super 8, just as a last-resort? I think the 16mm is Vision stock, while the super 8 I have at home is Vision 2. Would V2-200T in Super 8 cut well enough with Vision 800T in 16mm? I'm thinking mostly about grain size, but color and sharpness are probably an issue, too.

Has anyone tried it? I think I'll do it regardless of the answers I get here, but I'm interested to know what others think.

Post by **cubdukat** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:49 pm

You're going to know which is which. The sharpness between the two formats will be noticeable.

Not to mention the grain.

Post by **fastwind** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:17 pm

I have 2 suggestions. Pro8mm has 5279 available in super 8 still.
That film stock will look VERY grainy under the right conditions.
You could also shoot 5217/Vision2 in super 8 and push it one stop.
This will help for cutaway shots .

Post by **drsanchez** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:40 am

fastwind wrote:I have 2 suggestions. Pro8mm has 5279 available in super 8 still.
That film stock will look VERY grainy under the right conditions.
You could also shoot 5217/Vision2 in super 8 and push it one stop.
This will help for cutaway shots .

You're suggesting using 800 speed super8 to match 800 speed 16mm? If that works, then why would anyone ever use a larger format? The S8 frame is four times smaller, so viewing them together would mean blowing up the S8 (digitally, but the concept is the same), resulting in larger grain. If I use a fine-grained super8 to begin with, I'm thinking that after enlarging it, it might not look so different from the 16mm 800ASA.

Maybe there are just too many variables, but I thought there could be some combination of low-speed super 8 that might not look so drastically different from high-speed 16mm. Previous poster mentioned sharpness, which I'm sure is an issue. I'm going to try it anyway, rating the V2-200T at 100, but I was just wondering if anyone else has tried it and what their results were.

Thanks for the replies. If I actually get some results, I'll post them.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:21 am

If you only want to intercut a little bit and this is going to be done on the computer, I don't think it's a big deal. Mix and match at will ;) I have a film where three shots are Plus-X 16mm and the rest are K40. In practice the different look is not distracting.

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:21 am

I intercut some S8 k40 with 800ASA 16mm footage, and the S8 footage blows away the 16mm footage for sharpness and saturation.

makes the s8 look like 16 and the 16 look like S8... (kinda defeats the purpose of trying to contrast S8/16...)

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:22 am

Well... you're cutting between a 25ASA in daylight stock and 800ASA... even with the smaller frame size if there wasn't some difference in look I might be concerned ;) Small frames don't change the saturation or look of a stock.

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:22 am

k40
vs
800asa vision negative

the k40 has much more saturated colours than the neg stock that I shot.

(but if your original argument was just stating that an identical stock in s8, 16 and 35 would have the same saturation, i would tend to agree, though I've been told otherwise...)

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:48 am

"(but if your original argument was just stating that an identical stock in s8, 16 and 35 would have the same saturation, i would tend to agree, though I've been told otherwise...)"

Yep, assuming decent lenses on all three cameras. I've yet to shoot the same color stock across formats so I don't have any first hand experience with it, but it stands to reason. [some Fuji 64D 16mm about to be sent for processing]

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:27 am

hey kubota,

i think a buddy of mine who i went to film school with is buying your 16mm camera from ya. small world eh?

Post by **drsanchez** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:39 am

Short version: the location of my shoot changed, resulting in the need for a wider lens which I don't have for my 16mm camera, so I shot the whole thing in super 8 V2-200T since my Nizo can go fairly wide. My experiment will have to wait for another day and another location.

Post by **fastwind** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:39 pm

FYI, 5279 is 500T . I hope your shoot turns out good. :o

Check this out :

http://www.cinetech.com/html/stocktimeline.html

Please post your footage when you are done.

Post by **drsanchez** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:13 pm

My bad. But I still think that to try to match super 8 with 16mm you would need a slow speed in super 8 and a fast speed in 16mm, not the same (or similar) emulsions.

And I'm pleased with the shoot. My friend and I are treating this like our own private trial and error film school and starting with baby steps.

Good link. Thanks.

fastwind wrote:FYI, 5279 is 500T . I hope your shoot turns out good. :o

Check this out :

http://www.cinetech.com/html/stocktimeline.html

Please post your footage when you are done.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Tue May 23, 2006 8:32 pm

Well... how funny that my evaluation was not so pessimistic a few days ago. (I hope it'll actually turn out that way..)

I had to mix K40 (S8) and Fuji 64D 16mm for a shoot yesterday. Ran out of 16mm stock and switched over to K40 in my Nikon R10... I hope it cuts together decently.

Post by **Will2** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:25 pm

I was ok to see that Vision800T stock go away. The colorists I work with said it was one of the worst color stocks Kodak made. I love the 500T, but that 800 T was painful. Of course, with 800T you always wanted to push the envelope and so you can see from this shot the light was too low anyway.

16mm 800T

Although this shot is cool... 16mm 800T