Has anyone tested Retro-8 from MovieStuff yet?

[Tscan]

I set it up last night, and i'll say right away that the unit is really awesome. I've been using the WP XP for nine years and this is a huge step forward. The first positive is the design and function. The machine fits perfectly between my monitor and PC tower, with one plug to my power strip and a USB to my PC... no firewires, extra cables, 3 ft camera alignment, ect... a very clean and organized setup. The images register perfectly, cropping to the frame exact with an even exposure across the frame. No vignetting or mirror artifacts to fuss with. The software has color and contrast controls with manual exposure setting, allowing you to make adjustments before capturing. There is also a grain reduction box, which i haven't used yet. So far I only transferred 1 roll of 100D and it came out looking just great. I just set my exposure and didn't even play with the other tools yet, and it was the best home transfer i've ever done. Has the potential to give results very close to a high end transfer. I think 720P is a perfect choice for S8. The images are very sharp and process lightning fast in the Retro8 software and in my NLE. I'll try to post a clip when i get a chance maybe later today.

[MovieStuff]

Thanks for the kind words, Tony. We are working on other improvements to the software, as well.

Roger

[Will2]

The images are very sharp and process lightning fast in the Retro8 software and in my NLE. I'll try to post a clip when i get a chance maybe later today.

I'd love to see someone use Fred's AVISynth script on the footage as well.

[prtprt]

Tscan, thank you for your first report. Very interesting.

You wrote that you set the exposure before running the transfer. But have you tested how easy/hard it is to work with the transfer result if you do not set the exposure for each roll? What I mean is that I am curios to know how it will work if you transfer several rolls that you have put together on a big roll, and where you do not set the exposure on every roll, but let the Retro-8 transfer it all on the same settings.

Charlie

[Tscan]

Tscan, thank you for your first report. Very interesting.

You wrote that you set the exposure before running the transfer. But have you tested how easy/hard it is to work with the transfer result if you do not set the exposure for each roll? What I mean is that I am curios to know how it will work if you transfer several rolls that you have put together on a big roll, and where you do not set the exposure on every roll, but let the Retro-8 transfer it all on the same settings.

Charlie

So far i'm just working with 50ft rolls and getting the hang of dialing in my exposure and settings before capture. The unit is really friendly this way. You can also adjust the settings while transferring. For my purposes, I take care in exposing my films properly when shooting them so any adjustments after my initial setup are going to be very subtle if at all. Reversal is a what you see is what you get kind of emulsion... so if your exposing it properly, the density should be pretty consistent.

[Will2]

Is there a way to scan through the film, set exposure at different points then rewind and actually scan? Like a Spirit or other big-boy telecines would do? or are you stuck at one exposure and manually changing on the fly?

[MovieStuff]

Is there a way to scan through the film, set exposure at different points then rewind and actually scan? Like a Spirit or other big-boy telecines would do? or are you stuck at one exposure and manually changing on the fly?

There is no point to point automated exposure change that you can program into the system. But what we did add, which is pretty useful once you work with it, is the ability to compress the contrast range of the roll by turning down the exposure to protect the highlights and then bringing up the gain to dig information out of the dark areas. This will allow you to then use your NLE to set the contrast and exposure as you wish on your timeline. Short of a programmable exposure setting, this is the next best thing.

Roger

[Will2]

There is no point to point automated exposure change that you can program into the system. But what we did add, which is pretty useful once you work with it, is the ability to compress the contrast range of the roll by turning down the exposure to protect the highlights and then bringing up the gain to dig information out of the dark areas. This will allow you to then use your NLE to set the contrast and exposure as you wish on your timeline. Short of a programmable exposure setting, this is the next best thing.

I totally get the no automated exposure because of the issues that brings, but what I meant was manually adjusting and the software recording those adjustments on a "pre-pass" so you don't have to sit by the machine and adjust for each roll/scene since you would probably have multiple rolls/scenes up for scanning at one time. When I'm sitting in a transfer session that's what the colorist does; runs it through, adjusts everything, records the settings for each scene, then runs the film back and brings it in with all those settings changing as it transfers so you get the most info from each scene rather than getting one master setting for an entire roll.

Seems like that could be a future update maybe? Since it would be software based...maybe I'm missing something basic. Sorry.

[MovieStuff]

I totally get the no automated exposure because of the issues that brings, but what I meant was manually adjusting and the software recording those adjustments on a "pre-pass" so you don't have to sit by the machine and adjust for each roll/scene since you would probably have multiple rolls/scenes up for scanning at one time.

I wasn't referring to auto exposure. I was referring to programming point to point changes in exposure like you do on a Rank or Spirit, etc. This unit does not have that feature. But what we did do was add a way to compress the contrast range to help capture all the information in the film so that you can do point to point changes on your NLE later without losing information.

When I'm sitting in a transfer session that's what the colorist does; runs it through, adjusts everything, records the settings for each scene, then runs the film back and brings it in with all those settings changing as it transfers so you get the most info from each scene rather than getting one master setting for an entire roll.

If you have one setting that allows you to capture everything from the shadow areas to the highlights, then you can do what you want later on in post because all the information is there. Not as good as programming in advance but pretty handy. This isn't the same thing as a "one light" where you lose shadow and highlight information that can not be retrieved.

Seems like that could be a future update maybe? Since it would be software based...maybe I'm missing something basic. Sorry.

It's something we've considered but it's actually pretty complicated to implement. Not sure it won't cause more customer service calls than is warranted for a unit priced as low as this is.

Roger

[Will2]

Sounds great. I'm still saving for mine, not too far away although I guess I missed the Father's day sale!

[MovieStuff]

Sounds great. I'm still saving for mine, not too far away although I guess I missed the Father's day sale!

Well, technically. But since I haven't taken down the special from the website, any forum member that wants one at the $2495 price can get it through Monday (no trade-ins at this price, though). I won't have time to take it down from the website until then. Get 'em while they're hot.

Roger

[Tscan]

I was just working with some footage in my NLE (Sony Vegas 10) and was pretty impressed with how well I was able to correct some high contrast scenes. I would so far agree that you're able to pull a lot of information out of the shadows with the gamma in post as easily as you can with your pre-capture settings. I just put together a video, burned it and watched it on the flat screen tonight and I couldn't be happier with the results. I got a lot of good years and transfers with my work printer, but this is just way beyond that on so many levels. I'm starting to rack up carts of Vision 3 that I'll be working with in a month or so. Pretty excited about that.

[filmrescue]

We received the our first Retro-8 scanner from Movie Stuff last week and have spent a good deal of time with it now at this point. We adore this machine.

We had been resistant to purchasing a frame by frame unit because of either cost with a machine such as the MWA Flashscan or the fact that the movie stuff machines were still using a conventional video camera aerial imaging from a polished field lens. When comparing real time to frame by frame, in this case, I wouldn't have died for the difference. Not so with the Retro 8. The Retro 8, even straight out of the machine, produces a great image with extremely flat light corner to corner with pretty much no color fringing from centre to edge.

The unit also has a sensor with much more latitude then our 3 sensor c-mos cameras. This was something I was very concerned about. The hope was with the Retro 8 that we could pretty much leave the unit unattended but I was skeptical. I was hoping it would be able to produce a file, without adjusting the brightness, that would have no highlight blooming in the brightest over exposed scenes and no blocking up of the shadows in the darkest parts of a Kodachrome film. While it doesn't do perfectly at this, it does extremely well. When the light is adjusted properly, there is a small bit of blooming in the brightest areas of the film and a small bit of blocking in the darkest parts of a Kodachrome film. Basically you can turn this unit on and not look at it again until the scan is complete. Well exposed areas of the film are going to look pretty damn fantastic and under and over exposed areas are going to still be perfectly acceptable to everyone other than the very most discerning of clientele.

Upon first seeing the unit on Moviestuff's page, I worried that the unit and software looked too simple, not giving enough options for adjustment but that concern is gone now after using it for the last week. It has on board everything that is needed to do a great capture. I have a few quibbles with how they've approached attaching the reels to the take up and supply side of the machine but in the end the system is solid and reliable...albeit it can be a little bit time consuming to load and remove reels. The lock down screw on the supply side of the reel is too large, meaning that once the film is finished scanning, depending on the reel, you need to remove the reel to find the slot to hold the film from slipping during rewinding. Really a very small quibble though.

All in all I highly recommend the Retro-8 scanner. It's a great solid and very capable film scanner at a comparatively very low price.

Greg Miller
Partner
http://www.filmrescue.com

[Tscan]

The Retro 8, even straight out of the machine, produces a great image with extremely flat light corner to corner with pretty much no color fringing from centre to edge.

Absolutely, this is one thing I was hoping to get out of this machine and it does an amazing job. There is no vignetting or reflective artifacts, just a crisp and well lit frame from corner to corner and edge to edge.

Upon first seeing the unit on Moviestuff's page, I worried that the unit and software looked too simple, not giving enough options for adjustment but that concern is gone now after using it for the last week.

The cool thing about the software is that Roger has been refining it's abilities and adding features. There is a new "image enhancement" selection that gives the image an extra pop in brightness without compromising the highlights.

I've been having a ball with this machine, putting it through the paces with quite a bit of film. I have a trunk full of reversal film from the last ten years that I have been selectively scanning or re-transferring... has been given new life on Bluray, looks just amazing. I scanned most of our old family footage recently acquired from my dad... the amount of information I was able to feed into Sony Vegas allowed me to really put the magic on some poorly shot (and well shot) footage that now looks better than it ever has. And i've been scanning the new negative films that I shoot now, but with the same budget I enjoyed with reversal. Shooting film hasn't been this fun in a while. The unit has already more than paid for itself in just a few months with all it's accomplished.

[prtprt]

When the light is adjusted properly, there is a small bit of blooming in the brightest areas of the film and a small bit of blocking in the darkest parts of a Kodachrome film. Basically you can turn this unit on and not look at it again until the scan is complete. Well exposed areas of the film are going to look pretty damn fantastic and under and over exposed areas are going to still be perfectly acceptable to everyone other than the very most discerning of clientele.

Interesting to read about your experiences with Retro-8.

Do you perhaps have a test reversal film to publish where we can see how under/normal/over-exposed areas look like when it comes directly out of the Retro-8 without adjustments in the post?

Charlie