external lightmeter...worth it?

[ericMartinJarvies]

gossen ultra spot 2 cine meter. very easy to use and switch between fps speeds. it measures exact and can meter based on multiple exacts, giving overall averages. so if you frame a scene, you can point and click at several differant areas of the scene, and determine your range of lighting accordingly. it will be nice when they start making meters that actually snaps a digital photo, and based on the image lighting variations, you will be able to pick particular areas on the frame, and then see how the other areas will expose based on your specific setting for that one point, or multiple points. someone should contact gossen or the like and suggest this idea, or maybe they have already thought about it. but man, talk about not only a time saver, but a film saver as well. nothing worse then getting processed film back wherein you realized you should have averaged, or selected another point for metering reference, or whatever.

[christoph]

it will be nice when they start making meters that actually snaps a digital photo, and based on the image lighting variations, you will be able to pick particular areas on the frame, and then see how the other areas will expose based on your specific setting for that one point, or multiple points.

well, if my mind doesnt fool me kodak made a unit which does about what you suggest... but there are tons of problems, like:

- no LCD (or CRT) monitor will be able to show you what a projected film looks like...
- no CCD will capture the highlights as nicely as film...
- labs make a big diffference...
- ...
not to speak of that you'd need a setting for each film (this is i guess why kodak made it, to compare films).

so, it might be tempting but believe me, no cinematographer will trust in those on an important shoot - what he will trust in is his experiense and tests tests tests ;)

++ christoph +

ps: btw, this is basically the way video shots are lit ... i dont like to do it, you end up running to the monitor all the time and in the end it still looks worse than if you light it by eye.

[ericMartinJarvies]

where i would be interested in such a unit is for programming favorite settings that have proven effective for me. for example, a, b, c lights at x kelvins, x fps, x iso/asa, x film stock, x lens, and x lens setting. this way, if 8 month ago you shot a scene that you were extremely pleased with, you could instantly recal the scene(lcd picture of it) with all the the meter'd info, and then it would contain fields of all the entered/preset data. perhaps the device would even allow you to take actual stills from the telecined footage once digitized and store on the device wherein you could overlay or view side by side. then, if you could make a change to any of the fields/data, and the image would automattically adjust.

almost like a virtual space, with 3d adjustments menus that contain a hundreds of differnat menu selections for light sources(like a candle, or an arri 10k hmi). the code exists already ... any number of 3d modeling and rendering applciations could be used as the code base. obviously there are numerical/measurable values for all lighting instruments, and on and on. a digital film assistant that basically is like a log or diary with tons of helpers, including the spot meter. it would be really cool if film cameras all had a standardized port that such a unit could plug into or dock on, that you could recall some type of scene/effect/whatever that you really like, and voila! the camera is set accoridngly. naturally, this would require film cameras know what lenses are mounted, and all the other things that such a system would require, all of which are possible, but highly unlikely anyone or any company would ever venture to create such devices, simply because film is on the way out according to trend/bussiness(not me, film is on the way in for me:). it would have also been cool if the industry would have developed film digital cameras, recording as your filming. hmm ... could haves would haves should haves dont haves.

[christoph]

where i would be interested in such a unit is for programming favorite settings that have proven effective for me. for example, a, b, c lights at x kelvins, x fps, x iso/asa, x film stock, x lens, and x lens setting. this way, if 8 month ago you shot a scene that you were extremely pleased with, you could instantly recal the scene

oh such a thing exists already:
it's called a sketchbook and a pencil ;)

++ christoph ++

[ericMartinJarvies]

you got that right.

[Pedro]

I think when you know how your TTL meter is reacting under certain circumstances, you can really use it. It depends a lot on the camera, the individual piece of equipment and adjustment.
With my 6008 I always had a VERY reliable TTL light meter, bottom-wheigted. I nearly NEVER had the wish to apply any correction, the results on K40 always came out perfectly exposed, even in extreme situations. I only fixed the stop sometimes when I expected brightness, to avoid pumping. The internal meter is ways faster to use than any external, compensates any filter or effective light loss of zoom lenses etc. External light meters are o.k. (and neccessary) for studio work, of course, determining the power of the differnt lamps without moving always the camera out of position.
Many cameras (also my first 6008) came adjusted a little bit too bright (1/2...1/3 stop). That was made in order to compensate too dimm projectors and to satisfy the (amateur) customer. But K40 produces much better results when exposured exactly or even a little bit under. With some under-exposuring, it produces more powerful colors and looks sharper, but requires also a more powerful projector.

When I got the 9008 (a 7008 based model), I began to think about exposure, as the results lacked the reliability of what I had been used to with my 6008. After some surprises with (totally) underexposured scenes, without any reason, nothing too bright in the scene, I measured and documented the sensibility distribution in the viewfinder area. That is pretty easy, only point the camera in a dark room to a singular spot light (20 W), place the light source to differnt positions in the frame area and write down the stop setting for each position. I found out, that the stop even kept closed when moving the light source out of the viewfinder area! The camera had light sensibility at the top of the frame, where no control is possible during shooting! So any hilight or light source (sun), that I carefully avoided to enter into the frame, influenced the result!
Once knowing about the problem, the solution was easy: only cropping the ground glass, using a small stripe of black tape. After some compensation at the ASA dial, I am again getting very reliable results, that make no external meter neccessary.
So I would advise anyone, who is not satisfied with the TTL meter, to check out the distribution of sensibility as described, and if there is any sensibity OUTSIDE the visible frame! Beaulieu cameras are easy to "repair" afterwards, only by masking the ground glass after taking off the lens. Place a small tape to the ground glass so that it does nearly NOT appear when looking thru the viewfinder.
Pedro

[Arislan]

Well I just bought a used Spectra Cine, wish me luck! It's the second I get to own, the first came missing the inserts so I don't know that it even works.

I hope we get some sunshine here in Rockville MD this week so I can run a series of tests. I have 5 cameras to test this week, 4 single-8 and a super-8, and I already know the Z700 internal meter ist ganz kaput. I don't know when the meter will be here from flatwood but I'm already devising the testing procedure for each camera.

Too bad on that Z700, I fell in love with the lens the minute I laid eyes on it and even got it its own Pelican 1450 case. Don't get me wrong, I love my ZC-1000s but they are heavy enough that I don't really wanna be lugging around the weight at my age!

[flatwood]

..... don't know when the meter will be here from flatwood but I'm already devising the testing procedure for each camera.
......

My plan is to ship it out to you tomorrow. You should have it b4 the week is out.

-=tabb

[Arislan]

Thanks! It was finally somewhat sunny today starting about 4:30PM, so hopefully I'll be able to start using my meter under good weather. I'll likely shoot a couple rolls at the National Zoo since it's june and the cherry trees aren't white. Not much interesting in this area of the country.

[Rusty]

I would buy a brand new light meter from BH photo etc. I got burned when I bought a selenium lightmeter. These are frequently innacurate and the cell is almost always depleted. selennium light meters have a maximum life of 10-12 years (these were common in the 1940's and 1950's).

Rusty

[Freya]

Wow the post that came back from the dead!

Sort of related, but a while back I was very scared about my ability to use a light meter. I was out and about shooting and suddenly my camera meter stopped working. (I think water got inside) I had the opportunity to shoot some beautiful pictures but the internal meter was dead. Instead I had a go at shooting some film with my external light meter, not expecting to get decent results.

Well I finally got my film back and wow did I get a suprise. The entire reel had possibly the most horrible footage I have ever shot in S8. Just really, really ghastly looking footage, then I got to the bit where I had shot with the external light meter, and it all looks beautiful! Really nice footage.

This has made me a lot less scared about using the external meter. Okay I'm still scared but just less scared. ;)

I think it's good to have an external meter so you can compare your readings to the internal ones of the camera and try and understand using the meter. Good practice in case you ever want to shoot 16mm or something. I'm sure it can help with meter phobia over time! ;)

love

Freya

[CHAS]

I would be hesitant to trust a 25+year old camera's internal light meter. If you have footage that you want to look the best it can possibly look, why not spend a little extra on an external light meter?

[Edwin]

Ok, so external light metering is good. Can I assume then, that there is no point in me buying batteries for my camera's light meter? I just bought a Nizo S800 and if I can get away with it, I'd rather not have to purchase light meter batteries for it.

[CHAS]

Ok, so external light metering is good. Can I assume then, that there is no point in me buying batteries for my camera's light meter? I just bought a Nizo S800 and if I can get away with it, I'd rather not have to purchase light meter batteries for it.

Man, this is an old thread. I couldn't even remember contributing to it. Unless you want to use your camera's internal meter as a backup or just to compare then you can technically forgo the cost. Personally, though, unless the camera's internal meter is consistently out of whack, I would spend the extra $$$ on batteries.

[Edwin]

Turns out the needle on the scale in the viewfinder on the Braun/Nizo S800 doesn't operate unless the light meter batteries are installed. So turning to manual exposure doesn't give you any indication of what your exposure setting is without batteries. So much for being a cheapskate.