New designed Syncing device for Elmo GS1200MO

[Guest]

I latly redesigned my synchronizer/resolver box (P1008GS-U) for the Elmo GS projector.
Now it has the following features:


1. Automatic crystal sync for 16 2/3, 18, 24 and 25 fps.

VERY ACCURATE c-Mos crystal oscillators are used, one for each framerate. This garantees very constant speed and allows syncing of big reels in one run.
The sync process starts when pushing the RUN button and stops when pushing the WAIT button.
The new P1008GS-U has a chinc audio connector (stereo-in, stereo-out) which is used to start the sync process by an audio control signal. To use this, you add a sync start frame to your film leader (in the most simple case, you make a cross to one frame, using a needle) before transfering it to NLE. In NLE-system, you record a beep where the sync frame is located. Then you export the audio, including the inicial sync beep.
When playing back, you foreward the film until the sync frame appears in the gate and switch the projector to ESS position. Start the audio, and when the sync beep comes, the synchronizer AUTOMATICALLY switches over to RUN position and the projector starts up! This is possible at any crystal framerate.
WAIT and RUN position as well as the sync pulses are indicated with LEDs.

Crystal sync for the projector it the "hollywood-bridge" to any digital working system like NLE, video, DVD, MD etc. You 24 fps film shot with a crystal camera will be the same when playing back on a crystal projector and sound can be dubbed directly from a digital recording device (like MD). Everything keeps in sync without drifting, as everything is controlled by crystal timebase.
You also can transfer footage to computer,shooting it simply off the screen. For sound editing,picture quality is not an issue. Then you edit the sound and transfer it back to sound stipe. Everything keeps easyly in sync. Instead of tranfering sound to sound stripe, you also can burn a CD and show you film with CD-sound.
It is also possible to refresh sound tracks of feature films, dubbing the sound from DVD or (HIFI-)Videotapes with perfect sync.


2. Pulse sync system for external sync source (1000 Hz).

When selecting external sync, the crystal oscillator is interrupted and the internal audio amplifyer is waiting for 1000 Hz sync signal (1 beep per frame) that had been recorded during shooting. It accepts sync signal from directly connected magnetic heads or line input.
F.e. you shoot the film using the R1008MD interface, having now the sound on the right track and the sync signal on the left audio track. The left line output you connect to the P1008GS-U and the right line output to the record input of the projector.
Now you easyly can sync your dialog scenes frame-accurate to magnetic stripe: only foreward the film until the first frame of the dialog appears in the gate, then switch it to ESS. THen start the audio (tape, MD...). The projector starts recording automatially when the first sync pulse arrives. A flashing LED is indicating every sync pulse, so you easyly can search the tape for dialog scenes.


3. Pulse sync system for perfo tape or full coat.

If you have the soundtrack on perforated tape of any kind, you can connect the opto coupler which reads the perforation notches to the P1008GS-U. The syncronizer takes care, that the projector forwards always one frame for each perforation notch passing by. This is like mechanical coupling in a sync bench. At the same time, you can record the sound to magnetic stripe.


Pedro

[David M. Leugers]

Wow, Pedro! This type of system (to me anyways) is the future of sound film projection. I think the key will be to make this usable on other, more common projectors. Not everyone has the big bucks to buy an Elmo GS1200... What would an industrious person need to do to a projector to make it compatable to your system? I think the possibilities with your system are endless and would take S-8mm projection up to a whole new level!


David M. Leugers

[LastQuark]

Pedro,

I think you should post your info also in the website below:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com

This is an active forum where most members are Elmo GS-1200 users.

There is a new site coming out all about Elmo GS-1200 projector here:

http://www.mrelmo.co.uk/
 

[Ericus]

Great, Pedro, now how much would this new box cost and when are they ready? I would like to have one just now!

Erkki

[Pedro]

What would an industrious person need to do to a projector to make it compatable to your system? I think the possibilities with your system are endless and would take S-8mm projection up to a whole new level! David M. Leugers

Well, this box is specially designed for the GS1200MO. This is the one and only projector that came with a inbuilt pulse synchronizer right from factory, allowing cheap and easy external control (ESS socket).

Compatible systems for other, cheaper projectors do exist. BUT, as every projector has a different design, it is nearly impossible to create a sync control fitting for all of them.

In the last years, I have sold several units (P1008 and P1008Q) that fit for the Bauer studio class projectors (only that with DC motor, the T502, T525, T510 and T610) and for all Braun Visacustic. Those machines have a identical motor control circuit, and the adaption to them is nearly identical and can be done by the user at home (Braun ist just PnP, Bauer needs an add. small electronic board inside)

Of course, the universal P1008 units are more expensive than the P1008GS units, as they contain a complete digital sychronizer, what the Elmo just has right from factory. (But my synchronizer is more precise than the Elmo and has a memory for 256 frames offset)

The P1008 synchronizer is adaptable to any other motor driven unit, as long as the speed of the motor can be influenced.
It has an universal control socket for third party designs.
The socket includes a framerate input, which senses the actual framerate of the connected device (TTL signal), a +5 V power supply and 5 open collector pins to control a speed regulator: one pin for nominal speed (f.e. 24 fps), one pin for slightly slower (f.e. 23 fps), one pin for slightly faster (25 fps), one pin for slow (21 fps) and one pin for fast (26 fps). Depending on the actual state of the framerate sensed, the system selects one of the outputs that could control several resistors in the motor control circuit of the machine.

I have just sold interfaces for motor viewers (Erno and Goko) and tape decks (Tascam and Teac). You can run a motor viewer pretty well in lip sync with the audio and check out your dialog scenes this way.
Adaptions for other projectors with DC motors, ideally with a pitch regulator that could be used, would be no big problem. F.e. the Elmo ST180. But I cannot make this virtually, I would need the device and probably circuit diagrams of it.

The P1008Q model has also 4 crystal oscillators as timebase like the Elmo box, but no automatic start. It is not only a control device like the ELmo box, that outputs a signal, it performs a closed regulation loop with the projector, checking the actual framerate of it comparing it with the target framerate and making corrections every frame that is advanced. It can f.e. turn off the projector during sync projection and turn it on again without loosing sync. The frame overrun the projector produces after turning off keeps memorized and is compensated with a slower start framerate when continuing the projection, until the total number of frames are matching again. It´s a closed regualtion loop.

Costs:
THe new ELMO synchronizer P1008GS-U will sell for € 160.-,
The existing P1008 (wihtout cristal) keeps at € 220.-,
The existing P1008Q (4 crystals) keeps at € 260.-
For Bauer projectors an adaption kit is neccessary, that costs € 80.-

Devices are made on demand, the Elmo Box can be produced within 3 weeks, for the others I need about 6 weeks, as that are very complex devices.


Pedro

[pelluet]

Pedro

The information you have given us above would make for a great article for FFTC [Film for the Collector] magazine and probably good advertising for you too

Mike

[David M. Leugers]

Pedro

Thanks for the info. I see I must have one of your devices in my future! 8) I will have to find the time to come up with my plans to adapt your device to some exsisting equipment I have. This can be used for any format I would think. If you can regulate a viewer to sync with a recorder, then this opens up a whole new world. Do you have a website?

David M. Leugers

[alang]

Pedro

Wow this is excitting.

Will this work for us GS owners here in the states?

[Pedro]

I will have to find the time to come up with my plans to adapt your device to some exsisting equipment I have. This can be used for any format I would think. If you can regulate a viewer to sync with a recorder, then this opens up a whole new world. Do you have a website?

David M. Leugers

Unfortunatly I don´t have a real website up to now, but I am working on it. Will be my very first website, and I am still thinking about what application I should use. Perhaps, for easy going, modificating something simple with CONTRIBUTE, or using DREAMWEAVER or GOLIVE? My problem is time, unfortunatly.

If you need further informations of how to adapt to my system, feel free to contact me.

Basically it is very simple.
The heart of the synchronizer is a up/down counter for 256 frames.
With power on or reset, it is set to mid position, that is 128.
Each frame impulse coming from the master device (crystal time base, fullcoat tape or 1000 Hz beep) increases the counter, while each frame coming from the projector decreases the counter.
So, ideally, it always keeps at 128. At result 128, the regulation output "neutral=in sync" is activated.
At result 130/131 the projector is behind the master, and must be accelerated. The output "too slow" is activated.
Any result over 131 means "much to slow" and activates the "much to slow" output.
It you get 126/127 out of the counter, the projector is faster than the master signal, and the output "too fast" is activated.
Anything lower than 127 means "much too fast" and the "much too fast" output becomes active.

So you have a regulation characteristic with 5 values, providing a very smooth regulation close to the setpoint speed, and fast regulation, when a bigger offset has to be compensated. How you determine the analog characteristic is a matter of the following analog motor circuit that is activated by these 5 states.

Of course any intermediate value is achieved by toggling between two neighbour states, providing a very smooth, stepless regulation.

Additionally, the syncronizer provides a STOP output, that becomes active, when the master signal is off (no input pulses).

So you have complete liberty for a símple and flexible control design.
(All outputs are open collectors to ground, BC337 transistors are used which provide a maximum peak current of 1 A at about 25 V.)

For Bauer and Braun projectors, or other machines using the TCA955 motor regulation chip, the analog converter is just in-built, they can simply be connected to the synchronizer.

Pedro

[Pedro]

Pedro

Wow this is excitting.

Will this work for us GS owners here in the states?

Of course it will work anywhere. You only need the appropriate connectors to plug in external sync sources. I am using a DIN 6pin connector for sync sources, as this is the industry standard for AV-syncing, at least here in Europe. Audio is connected with chinc jacks.

The crystal timebase runs at 16/23, 18, 24 or 25 fps. If you run your film at 24,000000000000 fps and shoot it with a NTSC video camera, you will have a somehow flickery and pulsating result, but with the same timing as the original film. Now you do your sound editing and export the sound file to audio (wav or aiff) and play it back while the projector is recording again at 24,000000000000 fps. The total duration will keep the same, no matter how the NTSC transfer looks. I can also run the projector at 18,000000000000 fps and shoot with a PAL video working at 25 fps, and export it again to the projector without loosing sync.

What will not work in NTSC countries, is the transfer of movie sound tracks from comercial DVDs or videos to a S8 print, as they play at 29,xx (?) fps (frames added) and not at 24 fps.

I am actually looking for a solution for that problem. For this the help of you all would be required. I need the following informations:

At what EXACT frequency the projector should run to match with NTSC?

Anyone has a simple idea who to achieve this framerate, by dividing the frequency of a standard crystal oscillator (1 -2 - 2.4576 - 4 - 8 - 10 - 10.24 - 12 - 20 - 24 - 25 - 30 - 32 - 33 - 36 - 40 - 48 - 60 - 66 - 80 - 100 MHz) thru a integer value, perhaps dividing several times thru different integer values?

This way a time base could be designed, that outputs exactly the NTSC frequency.

Pedro

[Pedro]

Pedro

The information you have given us above would make for a great article for FFTC [Film for the Collector] magazine and probably good advertising for you too

Mike

Mike, feel free to use it...
Pedro

[kevinef]

I would like to say that I have one of the earlier P1008 units which you built for me and it's still running well. I have used to to re-record features and shorts from DVD etc onto super 8 using the GS1200. What I found great about this is the way that a whole 600ft reel of film will stay in sync with the source with no connection between the 2.
I have also found a way where I can use your unit to accurately set up the running speed of the GS on both 24 & 18 fps which I do now as a matter of course on any machine which comes my way for repair etc.
I will be interested in details of the new version or know if mine can be upgraded.
Thanks for all the work you have done for us.
Just remembered you wanted a picture of the unit you made for me. If you still require it then let me know and I'll get it sorted for you.

Kevin

[Ugo]

Hi Pedro, reading your post I discovered you are able to build a sync. unit for the Goko (8008?). I want it! But I suppose you have to modify the Goko too.
Let me know what's the way...
Bye
Ugo
(ugograssi@katamail.com)

[FILM-THURSO]

When Derann Film Services started selling "A Bug's Life" on super 8 many years ago it wasn't long before someone noticed that it came from exactly the same negative as the DVD release and so the wise-guy hooked up the DVD player to his Elmo and synced the digital sound whilst running the super 8mm print and wouldn't you know it worked. He enjoyed high quality film images with the advantageous clarity of digital surround. Wowzers!

[Pedro]

I will be interested in details of the new version or know if mine can be upgraded.
Thanks for all the work you have done for us.
Just remembered you wanted a picture of the unit you made for me. If you still require it then let me know and I'll get it sorted for you.

Kevin

Hello Kevin and thank you for your great feedbacks! As I have decided to update the original design, I don´t need pictures anymore.
The difference between your´s and the new one is the following.
I have built for you a P1008GS-Q (crystal-only unit) that is identical with the new P1008GS-Q unit. Only the panel is different. The panel now is matching with the two other cousins of the unit and can be completed with all control options, from the simpliest one up to the fully equipped one. So I am more flexible in manufacturing.

The P1008GS-U is similar to the original P1008GS-U. This unit has a complete analog microfone amplifyer, analog-digital converter and pulse former, that enables it to read 1000Hz sync pulses direclty from the sync head of a tape deck or from line outputs of any audio player. This sync pulses can be used as a external sync source for the projector and the internal crystals are paused. Additionally, the analog circuits are used to analyze the audio track during crystal sync, in order to remote start the projector. That is the real difference to the original GS-U device.

The GS-P device is unchanged, only new panel
All devices have a control LED for the outgoing pulses, 1 flash per pulse.

An Update of your original unit to GS-U is rather complicated, as your box is not prepared for the new control elements and connectors. It also has no analog circuit inside that could be able to analyze the audio track.

Pedro