The big new changes at EBAY

Post by **Jim Carlile** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:00 am

What does everyone think of the big changes announced yesterday by EBAY?

Personally, I think the fixed price scheme is an attempt to put as much as possible on a 'buy it now' basis, which means higher prices, as merchants are going to be encouraged to leave unsold listings on as long as they can.

Also, what's the deal with eliminating money orders, and forcing everyone to go with PayPal or credit cards? This will only hurt smaller merchants and decrease the pool of ready, occasional buyers. Many smaller merchants hate PayPal as much as anyone.

I think the good old days are over-- probably have been for awhile now.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:54 pm

Jim Carlile wrote:What does everyone think of the big changes announced yesterday by EBAY?

Personally, I think the fixed price scheme is an attempt to put as much as possible on a 'buy it now' basis, which means higher prices, as merchants are going to be encouraged to leave unsold listings on as long as they can.

Also, what's the deal with eliminating money orders, and forcing everyone to go with PayPal or credit cards? This will only hurt smaller merchants and decrease the pool of ready, occasional buyers. Many smaller merchants hate PayPal as much as anyone.

I think the good old days are over-- probably have been for awhile now.

Possibly but I would say that if there was ever a place where demographics ruled, it would be ebay. They're huge and got that way by doing what the majority wanted and not by trying to service the needs of a select few. So while there will always be people that don't like PayPal, don't like the fees, etc, ebay knows which side their bread is buttered on and I seriously don't think they would do anything to rock the boat for the majority. Once example is the inability for sellers to leave negative feedback against buyers. This is a huge improvement, in my opinion, and reflects the way the real commercial business world operates. It has been needed for quite some time and, after enough buyers complained, ebay took note and fixed it. Obviously some sellers don't like it but I think it shows that ebay isn't taking sides and is trying to be as even handed as they can while still operating a profitable business. And that's the thing most people complaining about ebay forget: It is a business.

As far as eliminating money orders and insisting on PayPal, well, they do own PayPal so that isn't surprising. But sending money orders is not very safe, anyway, as anyone with a fake ID can cash them ( I know, I've been had before) and I hate having to go to the bank. There are often items on ebay that I simply will not buy because they insist on money orders and won't take PayPal. Too much of a hassle. If anything I think that insisting on PayPal will increase sales for occasional buyers because it will make buying as easy as clicking a button. Do they have to set up a PayPal account? Yes but that takes less time than going to the bank for a money order and they only have to do it once.

I don't have any problems with the new ebay rules but, then again, I don't sell on ebay so perhaps there are some dynamics there that I have not experienced and would object to if I were selling.

Roger

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:37 pm

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,370,000 for paypal lawsuits.

http://www.google.ca/search?client=fire ... gle+Search

Post by **MovieStuff** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:44 pm

Mitch Perkins wrote:Results 1 - 10 of about 1,370,000 for paypal lawsuits.

http://www.google.ca/search?client=fire ... gle+Search

Not sure what is significant about the numbers. For instance, here are the results of "lawsuit against......" for a variety of rather innocuous subjects:

Old Navy 240,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Toys R Us 236,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Hitachi 172,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Boy Scouts 1,390,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Home Depot 375,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Mastercard 445,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

Walt Disney 639,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... tnG=Search

PayPal has certainly had its share of lawsuits but it's pretty common knowledge that the google entries are nothing more than repetitions of the same information.

Roger

Post by **Ace** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:46 am

Roger,

I think the significance of what he meant was the problems with using Paypal versus using other methods of payment. (I know statistics can be shown to favor any side of the argument, but comparing to other financial institution would have at least been a fairer comparison).

While paying by other methods other than Paypal may not be your method of choice, sometimes not having a choice in this situation is the real issue and call for concern.

Personally I think that the potential for misuse on Ebay's part by having control over the only payment method is a valid concern and arguably a conflict of interest. By saying that no other intermediary payment service (i.e. Paypal) may be used because we own it and should be able to dictate what should be used. Okay, kinda hard to swallow, but I understand their bottom line. But, disallowing any other method of payment but their own, including money orders, personal checks, etc., then yes, I have a problem with that.

Personally I use Paypal as a buyer and seller for it's convenience and safety, but I can see problems on the road ahead by ebay taking this course of monopolistic action.

Post by **super8man** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:14 am

I buy and sell directly on specific forums...far simpler and easier...no fees, knowledgeable buyers and sellers and the hammer of bad forum gossip if things go south. This may be the way the future goes for many enthusiasts. Ebay is no longer an option for folks like me on the selling side.

Post by **reflex** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:09 am

super8man wrote:I buy and sell directly on specific forums...far simpler and easier...no fees, knowledgeable buyers and sellers and the hammer of bad forum gossip if things go south.

Yup, I hear you. I've had excellent experiences trading with forum members here and elsewhere.

It's still possible to get good value on eBay, but only if you avoid the dodgy "power sellers" and stumble across an honest private seller. I picked up a beautiful Nikon DSLR body the other day - the guy was happy to sell it and upgrade, and I was happy to get a massive discount. Everyone wins. Sadly, that's not what eBay is about these days.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:47 am

Ace wrote:Roger,

I think the significance of what he meant was the problems with using Paypal versus using other methods of payment. (I know statistics can be shown to favor any side of the argument, but comparing to other financial institution would have at least been a fairer comparison).

What comparison? I mean, that's the whole point. The numbers don't represent the number of lawsuits or a measure of guilt or even that PayPal is inherently problematic. They're simply relevant to the number of times that something is discussed on the internet. Do a search for Britney Spears and see what her numbers are. Is she significant? The number of people that slow down to look at a wreck doesn't make it any more or less tragic.

Ace wrote: ..... But, disallowing any other method of payment but their own, including money orders, personal checks, etc., then yes, I have a problem with that.

Personally I use Paypal as a buyer and seller for it's convenience and safety, but I can see problems on the road ahead by ebay taking this course of monopolistic action.

Maybe but I think that some ebayers just want their cake and eat it too. They complain when they pay for something with a money order, get ripped off, and ebay won't help them. They complain when they pay for something with Western Union, get ripped off and ebay won't help them. They complain when they are paid with a bogus credit card via PayPal and then don't understand why PayPal takes the money back. I think that ebay is weighing the cost of the impossible task of trying to maintain security for all transactions against the cost of having to perpetually hold hands of a smaller group of customers that can't balance their own checkbook and don't understand how business works. So by demanding that all customers use PayPal, there is greater control over transaction disputes, though no system will ever be perfect. I've been using PayPal since 2001 and have never had a single problem and I would say that well over 80% of our sales are paid for via PayPal. They do take their cut but I find it very secure. When you go to ChuckyCheese or the Carnival, they make you buy tokens for all the games and rides so you aren't walking around with valuable cash. It's the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

Roger

Post by **Ace** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:27 am

What comparison?

Um, the comparison you made of Paypal to random businesses...like I said for it to be a fair comparison, list similar businesses (online banking institutions) of problems (or lawsuits).

My point was that if compared, there aren't any more problems than any other ways of payment, money orders, checks, or whatever included.

Maybe but I think that some ebayers just want their cake and eat it too

If wanting cake and eating it too is wanting choices, then, um yeah I guess!

They do take their cut but I find it very secure.

I find them secure as well, and as I said I use them also (since 2000) but "their cut" is not regulated by a free market, it;s what they deem "fair" and with limiting other types of payment, this just makes it easier to charge whatever they deem free...don't you see this?

When you go to ChuckyCheese or the Carnival, they make you buy tokens for all the games and rides so you aren't walking around with valuable cash. It's the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

...I don't quite follow you there, if by comparing Paypal to Chunk E Cheese (I have not been there since I was 6), you mean getting sick and throwing up while getting ripped off as you stare at a screen, then yes, I know exactly what you are saying.

They're huge and got that way by doing what the majority wanted and not by trying to service the needs of a select few.

Just because they are "big" they are catering t the majority, that's a fallacy, what proof do you have that because something is popular it automatically is serving the majority. Furthermore, who is to say this is the best even if they were catering to the majority? Why do you think we ended up with VHS instead of Beta?

It's the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

It's not the same if that is your only choice!!!!!!!!!!

Post by aj » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:01 am

I don't notice any annoucements here on eBay.

I doubt they could push Paypal that strong in Europe. Only sellers in Italy and UK seem to adopt Paypal. Possibly because banking there is so lousy. Here and in many other countries transfers are quick and free of charge. Even across border amongst Euro countries it works like a charm. Only disadvantage is of course you cannot claim back like with creditcard based paypal.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:29 pm

Ace wrote: Um, the comparison you made of Paypal to random businesses...

No offense but I still don't follow your logic. There is no "comparison" to be made, fair or other wise, because an increase or decrease in the number of hits listed has absolutely zero informative value. The google numbers do not represent anything other than how often people are looking at a topic and most of the numbers are repeat hits and not even new information. That's why I listed random businesses, to show that you can come up with high numbers regardless of the topic being discussed. I assume, and I could be wrong, that Mitch posted the google hit numbers because he felt they were significant relative to the number of lawsuits against PayPal. He certainly did not use google to list the number of actual lawsuits. I was pointing out there is no implied connection to the number of hits.

Ace wrote: ...like I said for it to be a fair comparison, list similar businesses (online banking institutions) of problems (or lawsuits).

Again, the numbers mean nothing but here is a sampling of "lawsuit against....."

Charter Bank 2,450,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... gle+Search

Wells Fargo Bank 292,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Citicorp Bank 460,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Bank of America 560,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Chase 323,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Chase Mattahan 2,140,000

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Wow. Chase Mattahan must be a really dishonest bank because they had 2,140,00 google hits, right?

Ace wrote: My point was that if compared, there aren't any more problems than any other ways of payment, money orders, checks, or whatever included.

I understand what you want to know but obviously the google hits do not give you that information so why take the position that comparing google hits has relative meaning? PayPal could have just one lawsuit against them and the number of hits might be exactly the same or even higher simply because "PayPal" is part of the search string. For instance, if you only type in "PayPal", you get 697,000,000 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pa ... gle+Search

That means nothing. It is useless information, in and of itself, just like googling Britney Spears comes up with 102,000,000 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

Ace wrote:I find them secure as well, and as I said I use them also (since 2000) but "their cut" is not regulated by a free market, it;s what they deem "fair" and with limiting other types of payment, this just makes it easier to charge whatever they deem free...don't you see this?

Of course they're regulated by a free market. People don't have to use ebay or PayPal at all.

Ace wrote: Just because they are "big" they are catering t the majority, that's a fallacy, what proof do you have that because something is popular it automatically is serving the majority.

Well, "popular" certainly does not mean "serving the minority" so I'm pretty sure that (within this context) "serving the majority" pretty much defines "popular", at least as far as ebay or PayPal's bottom line is concerned. Obviously there are going to be those that don't like it but, as I stated before, it is a free market and these people do not have to use PayPal or ebay. But it is not unreasonable for PayPal or ebay to set rules if you want to use their services, even if those that do not use their services find their rules to be unreasonable. Choice is still part of the equation. Hell, people pay a premium to eat raw, uncooked fish and call it "Sushi". Not me. ;)

Ace wrote: Furthermore, who is to say this is the best even if they were catering to the majority? Why do you think we ended up with VHS instead of Beta?

But this isn't about what is best at all. This is about people in a free market using a service that has rules. If the majority want to use this service, despite any pitfalls, the minority do not have to do the same. Some people use iPhones, some people use Blackberries. Both will argue that one is better than the other. They both have service plans with rules that have to be followed.

Ace wrote: It's not the same if that is your only choice!

Since when is ebay or PayPal the only choice? I understand what you are trying to say but it's only valid if the government mandates that you must use ebay or that you must use PayPal. Obviously, it is a free market and you don't have to use either one. They have rules if you do want to use them? So what? Do you use PayPal by mandate or because you find them secure and convenient? Do you feel that security and convenience outweighs the negatives? You must, at this point, or you would not be using them. And when you finally feel like it is not in your best interest, then you'll stop, just like that. That's a free market in action.

Roger

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:34 pm

MovieStuff wrote: PayPal has certainly had its share of lawsuits but it's pretty common knowledge that the google entries are nothing more than repetitions of the same information.

Roger

Clicking through the pages of hits will provide specific knowledge that the hits are not in fact "nothing more than repetitions of the same information".

I like this one -

http://www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal_lawsuit

Go to it and you can click on and read these individual, non-repetitive

"PayPal Horror Stories

Beware of PayPal
PayPal Steals Money
PayPal Account Hijacked
Virus Alert
Fraudulant Charge Back
PayPal Ruined My Life
Can't Find PayPal Contact Info
Stolen Account/Fraudulant Funds
PayPal Scam
PayPal Fraud
BBB?
PayPal Does Not Care
PayPal Password Scam
PayPal Took Our Payroll
Where's My Merchandise
Selling On Ebay
PayPal Won't Admit Mistake
PayPal Password Hacked
PayPal Subscribers Beware
PayPal Refused To Refund
PayPal Owes Me Money
PayPal Lockdown
Can't Shut Down Account
PayPal Ripped Me Off
PayPal's Bogus Policy
PayPal Held My Money
PayPal Froze My Funds
Real Bad Taste Using PayPal
Hijacked By PayPal
Bank Numbers Locked
PayPal Is Frustrating
PayPal Does Not Follow Rules
PayPal Conversion Scam
PayPal Fraudulant Charge
PayPal's A Big Fraud
PayPal Took Me For A Ride
PayPal Claim Scam
PayPal Did Nothing To Help Me
PayPal Froze My Account
Why Is My Account Still Frozen
PayPal Destroyed My Business
PayPal Failed To Contact Me
PayPal Blocked Me Out
PayPal Malicious Prosecution
PayPal Is So Unfair
Losing Business To PayPal
My Claim Was Denied By PayPal
Purchased an I-Pod for Xmas
PayPal Took My Money
PayPal Did Not Cancel Account
PayPal Is Holding My Money
PayPal Will Not Transfer Funds
PayPal Closed My Case
PayPal Locked My Account Too
PayPal Accused Me Of Fraud
PayPal Big Money Transaction
PayPal Affiliated With Ebay
PayPal Credit Card Chargeback
PayPal Complaint Bandwagon
Unfair PayPal Kept My $$$
PayPal Sucks
PayPal, How Could this Happen
PayPal Account Blocked
New PayPal Virus Alert
PayPal Business Problem
PayPal Took $1,200 From Us
PayPal USPS Mess
PayPal Credit Card Issue
PayPal Request DENIED
PayPal Tried To Get Me
PayPal Fraud Payment
How To Access PayPal
People Added To My Account
Another PayPal Victim
My Personal PayPal Nightmare
PayPal Took Back Money
Bill Pay
PayPal Allows Fraud
I'm A Victim Of PayPal
PayPal Is Holding $9,752.59
PayPal Is Holding $7,000
PayPal Bank Account Change
PayPal And Ebay Watergate
Customer Sent Item To PayPal
PayPal Is Holding $30,000
PayPal Attacks Legit Users
PayPal Fraudulent Foreigners
Incorrect PayPal Refund
Cancellation Of PayPal
PayPal Held $3,200 For 1 Year
PayPal Closed My Entire Family
Be Careful Selling Outside the U.S.
Fraud Enabled By PayPal
PayPal Limited Account Access
PayPal Froze Account For 180 Days
PayPal Scammed Me
Fraud Email Message
PayPal Is Not Safe And Secure
Provide PayPal Info Over Phone
I'm Out $452.92
No More PayPal
PayPal's Excessive Permission
Bounced A Check
Another Possible Fake PayPal Email
PayPal Fraud Allowance
Unauthorized PayPal Transactions
PayPal Does Not See the Truth
PayPal Account Locked
PayPal Stole My Money
Potential PayPal Email Hoax
PayPal /Ebay Allow Fraud
Bounced A Check
PayPal Froze $600
PayPal Email Hoax
PayPal House of Horrors
PayPal Blocked Account
PayPal Scam E-mail
PayPal Direct Debit Checking
No Explanation Whatsoever
PayPal Closes Claim
PayPal And Ebay
Burden Of Proof
Fraudulent Access
PayPal Stole My Roomates Money
PayPal Took $5,050 Out Of Account
PayPal's Not Worth It
Do Not Sell Overseas
Ebay Pushed PayPal
PayPal Sellers Scam
PayPal Limited Account
I Was Scammed
PayPal Is Not Our Friend
PayPal Account Still Locked
PayPal Fraud Email
Ebay Seller Scammed Me
Trojan Horse Virus
No Help From PayPal
Your Account Can Be Suspended
eBay Is Just As Bad
Over $9,000 held by PayPal
Frustrating Experience With PayPal
PayPal Phishing Email
PayPal Froze My Tuition Money
Ebay Phishing Email
PayPal the Real Scammers
PayPal Is Holding $20,000
Another PayPal Phishing Email
PayPal Buyer Protection Insurance
Do Not Sell Overseas
Fraud on Ebay Using PayPal
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Let My Acct Get Hacked
Seller Hazards on eBay and PayPal
PayPal 4 Accounts Locked
Sellers Warning To Buyers
PayPal Ripped Me Off
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Is Terrible
PayPal Unfair To Sellers
PayPal Aids Ripoff Artist
PayPal Is Holding $2,000
$1,000 Gone From My Account
Ebay Problems
How To Spot A Fake PayPal Email
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Requires Proof Of Shipping
PayPal Seller Cheated Me
Ebay and PayPal Are All About Money
I thought PayPal Was Professional
Scammed On PayPal
Fraudulant Transaction
Fraudulant Charges Due To PayPal
Bank Account Cleaned Out
$1,200 chargeback
Buyer's Blackmail Using PayPal
PayPal SSL Connection Failed
Funds Frozen For No Reason
Contact Seller/Buyer Directly
Collecting Money From PayPal
Account Unfrozen After Credit Card Charged
PayPal Buyer Complaint
Ebay Scam Email
Chargeback Result
Scam Artist Chargeback
PayPal Locked My Account
Suspended Without Reason
PayPal Created A Debt
PayPal Refunded the Customer
Updating My Information
A PayPal Fiasco
Ideas For the Future
My PayPal Nightmare
My Account Was Hacked
PayPal Holding Money Captive
PayPal Is Very Wrong
My Account Is Restricted
PayPal Ban For Life
PayPal Has Frozen My Account
Credit Card Capable
Screwed Hard By PayPal
Waste Of Time And Money
Ripped Off through PayPal
No Longer Use Ebay
PayPal Ruined My Business
Using Stolen Credit Cards
Payment With No Account
No End Of Trouble
Hacker Got Into PayPal
I Won't Go Away
Is this PayPal Fraud
PayPal Unauthorized Funds
PayPal Robbed Me
Refusing To Reimburse Funds
PayPal's Unfair Policy
PayPal Error Cost Me Money
Suspicious About this Offer
PayPal Nightmare Not Over
PayPal Froze My Money
the FBI And PayPal
Bogus Email Confirmation
Ripped Off And Hanging
Funds Back To Buyer
PayPal Ruined the Business
PayPal Buyer Assurance Scam
PayPal Overdrew My Account
those PayPal thieves
Is this Email Legit
Buyer Protection Allows Fraud
Ripped Off By Crooks
Will PayPal Unlock Accounts
Won't Back Up Promises
I Need Some Help
Different then Described
Help With PayPal Problem
Someone Used My Info
New Security Requirements
I'm A PayPal Destroyer
Different Computers Logged In
PayPal With Reverse Deposits
Making their Own Rules
Process Serving Agent
Must Beware Of PayPal
PayPal Also Closed Account
PayPal Account Is Frozen
PayPal And Criminal Trouble
Don't Ever Use PayPal
Removing Account Altogether
Ebay Payment Deception
New PayPal Trojan
PayPal Corporate Scum Bags
Seller Told To Refund
Another PayPal Scam
I Am Being Scammed
Ebay Rejected My Password
Fraudulent Format File Scam
PayPal Won't Investigate
Out Of Date Lawsuit
A Kitten through PayPal
Complete Insensitivity
California Email Scam
Unauthorized Account Use
Multiple Email threats
A PayPal Investigation
Two Weeks Too Late
Unable To Make Purchase
Another Victim Of PayPal
Accessing My Bank Account
Fraud Email Received
PayPal Took Money Away
PayPal Account Closed
PayPal Customer Service
I'll Be Suing PayPal
Suspicious Buyer Behavior
What To Do With PayPal
PayPal Limited My Account
thought It Wouldn't Happen
Negative PayPal Balance
Holding Us Accountable
Ebay Fraud Alert
My PayPal Horror
I'm Now In Debt
Charges To My Account
PayPal Breaks the Law
Sent Collection Notice
Purchase Dissatisfaction
Account Put Under Limit
PayPal Denied Ebay Access
Pay Scamming Pal
Maddening Customer Service
Disputed A Charge
Attack On Scammers
Copy Of My Email
PayPal Is A Big Scam
Don't Trust PayPal
this Is PayPal Hell
Charging For Protection
Need My Money Back
Second Hand Troubles
Received this Email
Fraudulent Account Used
Can I Counter Sue
Don't Have An Account
Horror Stories Are Real
PayPal Money Reversal
PayPal Simply Robbed Me
PayPal Supports Fraud
Will Never Use PayPal
PayPal Complaints Process
PayPal Chargeback Fraudulent
Bloody PayPal Bastards
Never Received the Product
Two Fake Emails
PayPal Never Returns Emails
PayPal Tried To Steal
Inaccessible Funds
Colonoscopy Procedure
PayPal Late Fees
PayPal Having Me Arrested
I Need Some Help
this Is Poor Management
PayPal Policy Enables Fraud
PayPal's Evil Tactics
PayPal Double Whammy
Screwed Over By PayPal
PayPal Scam Artist
New Emails Added
Who Is Emailing Me
I Was PayPal Scammed
Here Is An Email Scam
PayPal Accounts Hijacked
Dangerously Irresponsible
Jerked My Refunds
Restricted My Account
PayPal Froze thousands
Payment Reversals
A Living Nightmare
Hundreds Stolen From PayPal
Insult Added To Injury
PayPal Holding My Money
Do Not Use PayPal
Feeling Like A Criminal
Getting Rich Off PayPal
PayPal's Slow Refunds
In Scammer's Favor
PayPal Is A Scam
Absurd Alert
they Ripped Me Off
PayPal Account Blocked
PayPal Access Limited
Money Back Guarantee
How True It Is
A Fake PayPal Email
*****PayPal Fraud Alert*****
PayPal Permanently Locked Account
Is PayPal Needed?
How PayPal Makes Money With Your Money
PayPal Terms of Use
Calling all Lawyers
Demanding Damages
Recovery of Funds
Credit Card Machines
PayPal
PayPal Payments & Online Shops
PayPal & Online Sales
Do You Want to Invest in PayPal?
Taking PayPal to Court
PayPal Sued
PayPal Class Action Suit
California Class Action Suit against Paypal
San Francisco Class Action Suite (PayPal)
Florida Attorney for PayPal Victims
PayPal Case Reports
Ebay Tries To Bully Paypalwarning.com
PayPal Settles For $225,000"

It's nice that folks who haven't had problems with paypal can use it; it would likewise be nice for those who *have* had problems with paypal to be able to use some other form of payment. Now empires aren't built on "nice", but the question remains, does one want to support empires? One makes a decision and acts accordingly...

Mitch

Post by aj » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:26 pm

I like this one -

aboutpaypal.org/paypal_lawsuit

It is more like a hate-site with a hidden agenda to promote other financial services. The stories are un-verifiable and un-dated. The lawsuit stories are from 2002 and such.

There is plenty of fraud in the world and thus trough Paypal too. Convenient as it is Internet driven and plenty of people do stupid things with their computers. Remarkable is that many people seem to think crooks live in other countries while their own jails are full of criminals. Many of whom are into online fraud and such.

Paypal is convenient to use across borders and oceans where banking is different and troublesome. It opens a world for sellers and buyers.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:37 pm

Mitch Perkins wrote:
MovieStuff wrote: PayPal has certainly had its share of lawsuits but it's pretty common knowledge that the google entries are nothing more than repetitions of the same information.

Roger
Clicking through the pages of hits will provide specific knowledge that the hits are not in fact "nothing more than repetitions of the same information".

Not really. A casual glance will reveal that most hits on any subject are direct or indirect links to the very same information. That's common knowledge of how google often works, since a "hit" doesn't mean "unique information". So, you can list there are a million hits but, without actually comparing the information within each link, you have no idea if a million hits means a company has a million different problems or if a million hits means that a million people all took a look at just one company problem or if a million hits means there are 200,000 unique links with the same links repeated 5 times or 5 unique links repeated 200,000 times, etc, etc.

Thus X number of google hits is only relative to how much internet interest there is related to that subject and nothing else. To try and use the number of hits as an indicator of magnitude regarding a problem doesn't work. It just shows how often a topic floats to the top of the discussion on the internet.

More to the point, and by your own admission, you had to click through the pages and explore them to extract the comparative information you wanted, thus proving my point that simply listing the number of hits related to a subject is meaningless.

Roger

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:59 pm

aj wrote:
I like this one -

aboutpaypal.org/paypal_lawsuit
It is more like a hate-site with a hidden agenda to promote other financial services.

Yep, they hate paypal for the listed reasons, and feel folks should know the alternatives. Makes sense to me...

aj wrote: The stories are un-verifiable and un-dated. The lawsuit stories are from 2002 and such.

To each her own, but I find it unlikely that that many stories were cobbled together out of thin air just for something to do, or from some un-motivated hate-on for paypal. Though admittedly, stranger things have happened...~:?)

aj wrote: There is plenty of fraud in the world and thus trough Paypal too. Convenient as it is Internet driven and plenty of people do stupid things with their computers. Remarkable is that many people seem to think crooks live in other countries while their own jails are full of criminals. Many of whom are into online fraud and such.

Paypal is convenient to use across borders and oceans where banking is different and troublesome. It opens a world for sellers and buyers.

It seems that, for many, paypal has been troublesome too...and somehow folks did international transactions before the advent of paypal...

I'll just reiterate my above thought -

It's nice that folks who haven't had problems with paypal can use it; it would likewise be nice for those who *have* had problems with paypal to be able to use some other form of payment. Now empires aren't built on "nice", but the question remains, does one want to support empires? One makes a decision and acts accordingly...

Mitch

Filmshooting

The big new changes at EBAY

The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY

Re: The big new changes at EBAY