web page for my new short film

[steve hyde]

.... Light entertainment is fine, but you still need substance even for that. True that I've not read the new script and so please know that my comments are not based on the new one and are in part a reaction to Ertugral's comment about it reading like a feature. The first time I read it I thought the same thing. In that first draft I remember your character having a conservative father that wouldn't let her go out and she snuck out anyway and has her heart broken when she sees her best friend making out with the boy she likes - then she comes home and has a moment with her mother who senses what happened and consoles her.

It's a character transformation story. Rebecca makes a choice, takes a chance, the choice leads to an experience. She actively goes to the show.
She tries to have a good time, but then things start happening outside of her control: a riot ensues so there is chaos all around her. She tries to find her date and then she finds him with the other girl.

The problem with the structure of this story is that she is a passive character. Things are happening to her. Her choices are not directly influencing the course of action. She is a passive young girl who gets bounced around out in the real world and then comes home to mommy.

That is not a very interesting story, Scot. I think you need to dig deeper.

(I'll read your new draft)

Steve

[steve hyde]

RE: feature script

I think it reads like the first act of a feature script all the way up to the inciting incident, which I read as the guy going with the other girl and the riot.
It reads like the set up for act # 2 which would be the story of how she becomes an empowered young woman or something like that.

(still haven't read the new draft.... :oops:) I'll try to do that tomorrow. I did want to offer my reactions now though in case...

Steve

[Plastik]

Scott, your short film at the moment is kind of like a long intro with the central plot only just beginning.
To me, the structure of the film is not working well for a short film. I'm assuming your film will be anything from 15-18 minutes?

All the light humour in the beginning needs to be shorter; kind of like saying something cleverly in a sentence rather than a whole paragraph.

[Scotness]

she is a passive character. Things are happening to her. Her choices are not directly influencing the course of action. She is a passive young girl who gets bounced around out in the real world and then comes home to mommy.

Precisely - she is a passive character - sometimes the world unfolds before us - and we don't drive it - and I think that's interesting - I hardly think a 16 year old girl in a provincial Australian town in the 1950's would be driving her destiny! I think it's an interesting thing to look at - though I do concede not all people will. I guess sometimes we grow through what happens to us, rather than what we do.

Scott, your short film at the moment is kind of like a long intro with the central plot only just beginning.
To me, the structure of the film is not working well for a short film. I'm assuming your film will be anything from 15-18 minutes?

All the light humour in the beginning needs to be shorter; kind of like saying something cleverly in a sentence rather than a whole paragraph.

You're meant to be enjoying the world of the film at this stage! :lol: :lol:

Perhaps it is too long but that's something I can only judge once we've shot it. After not looking at Hold Me Tight for over a year I can now see that that's too long, and now that I've got the final musical score someone is editing it down to about 20 mins (hopefully) from 36 mins.

The same might end up happening to this (and I'm pretty sure somene else will be editing it too, not me) but I'd much rather shoot too much material, than too little to give us room to move and options in editing.

Scot

[Nigel]

I'm going to read this for sure.

Back with thoughts.

Good Luck

[Plastik]

Scott, I don’t think it’s a matter of editing it down. Even if you cut down the beginning of the film, there still isn’t much of a plot. Don’t take this to heart – I’m trying to be as constructive as possible. I don’t think there is a ‘short film’ there yet.

To be a bit more blunt – A girl wants to go to a concert with the guy she likes, her father won’t let her, she sneaks out, is late, sees the guy with another girl, riot going on, comes home, mum knew all along… I’m still missing the fundamental point of the film. It isn’t there.

Again, I’m only trying to help as much as I can. As a film maker, and as a viewer.
When I finished reading the script, my initial reaction was; ‘is that it?’
The light humour that you are talking isn’t enough to drive this short. Most of it shouldn’t be there to begin with.

I will read the script again.

[Scotness]

I guess it's a matter of what interests you - I'm not really interested in "heroes journey" kinds of film - I'm more interested in time, place, culture and experience - and that's mainly what I'm trying to evoke here.

I don't really like films with an active hero on a transformational kind of journey because I don't find life is really like that most of the time and I find that it is a pretty artificial construct.

Perhaps I'm interested in exploring the ways life has effected me, and what I've seen in life that is interesting to me.

Plot is important but I just don't think it's the only, or necessarily the most important thing in a film. And I do think there's elements in this plot you're missing - what is the subtext between the mother and the father -what does the ending tell you about their relationship which isn't readily apparent until then ~ and again what does that tell you about the culture at the time?

Anyway maybe what I'm trying to do won't work in a short - perhaps you need the size and space of a feature for that - something I loved about The New World was that it wasn't about the plot.

Maybe it just won't work in this short film as I've written it - but I'm prepared to find out. The strange thing about this film is that whatever she's looking for - she gets something totally different in the end - and that's what I love about it ~ what she gets.

I guess some will get it and some won't.

Scot

[Bjarne Eldhuset]

I read the script yesterday, and here a few thoughts:

- To me it seems the father figure is supposed to be a strict-but-fair-kind-of-guy, but not exactly "evil"?. They way I read the script, it seems the father pushes his sick daughter a bit further than any normal person would do, even back then? If it's not supposed to hint to that he doesn't believe she is sick at all?

- I agree with some that this could be part of a longer film, but I don't think it has to. What struck me though, is that this would make a very nice 15-20 minute dramatic part of a 45-50 minute long documentary about the riots. what about interviewing some folks that were there? Some of them must be alive? I know a lot of people who love 50s-60s stuff, and they would for sure watch, and so would I! That would probably be easier to "sell" too, if that is any goal in this case.

[mattias]

I guess it's a matter of what interests you - I'm not really interested in "heroes journey" kinds of film - I'm more interested in time, place, culture and experience - and that's mainly what I'm trying to evoke here.

i think you're missing the point of the heroes journey. on the most basic level you interpret it directly and you get rocky. a great film but maybe too simple if that's not what you're after. then you have a whole bunch of more arty mainstream films like chinatown or whatever, that still follow the same structure, but even those can be seen as formulaic. but, here's the point: the heroes journey is really about interest, tempo, information, emotion and so on, or storytelling in short. one way of looking at it is saying that every story needs a beginning a middle and an end. most people agree with that. now does your story? i read it a long time ago so i can't comment on your new draft, but it was definitely lacking a beginning. if the time and place is the story that's what you structure your screenplay around. if the girl's journey is the story that's what you use. just because the action is about the girl the drama doesn't have to be externalized through her and her jorney, that far i agree with you completely.

/matt

[steve hyde]

I guess it's a matter of what interests you - I'm not really interested in "heroes journey" kinds of film - I'm more interested in time, place, culture and experience - and that's mainly what I'm trying to evoke here.

Then we should be discussing the ways that time, place and culture are experienced and how to communicate such an experience in a cinematic language. I'm not convinced that your story serves the the communication of the idea - if the idea is to say something about time, place and culture. What is the *something*?

My question is, what is it explicitly that you hope to learn more about and or communicate about time, place and culture? That rock music has some kind of potent impact on local culture? That sheltering children is a cultural practice that has some kind of place-based outcome? That the 1950s were a point of departure into some kind of cultural outcome that can be witnessed in Australia today?

Steve

[npcoombs]

Haven't read it all yet, but certainly it is nowhere near as bad as most people on this thread are making out.

A bit too talkie and not enough evocation of location for my taste but seems pretty solid in terms of a setup.

Wil give more feedback when I can.

Yes it does seem like a feature fragment kind of short. But there's nothing too wrong with that if done well.

[mattias]

Haven't read it all yet, but certainly it is nowhere near as bad as most people on this thread are making out.

they are?

Yes it does seem like a feature fragment kind of short.

isn't that exactly what people have been saying?

i too think it's pretty good despite the problems and i would just shoot it as is, as an experiment. working too much on a short doesn't guarantee that it becomes any better, but it's guaranteed that you will be sorry for some of the things you let people convince you of. ;-)

/matt

[steve hyde]

What about light entertainment? Films don't always have to be about something. It's just meant to be an amusing exploration of a certain time and place and values, with some substance in the family relationships.

Scot

I disagree on this point. Films are always about *something* One thing that isn't talked about much when we discuss the art of directing is specifically who and what is being directed. A director isn't just directing actors - a director directs viewers. Directing viewers toward *something*.
In my view the best films leave viewers with new insights into that *something* and pose new questions about how and why that something exists or works. Like for example how and why family relationships are transformed by youth culture and music.... a tale about the virtues of teenage rebellion or something like that.

We make a film to say *something* or we make a film in hopes that viewers will find *something* in it. Often times we don't know what that *something* is and then that is experimental filmmaking, right?

Screenplays are different. Screenplays are about making an articulation of an idea. They are about having a solid starting point. Then in the filming and editing themes and more ideas are found or worked out.

There are so many many approaches to making a film. Don't paint yourself into a corner by using only one. I'm just suggesting that you dig into some questions that are really important to you like what you love and hate about the culture you live in. I'm trying to encourage you to say something about that in your story.... Tell us what matters to you. Tell us who you are... I guess light entertainment doesn't interest me. I go for substance.

all the best,



Steve

[Plastik]

Haven't read it all yet, but certainly it is nowhere near as bad as most people on this thread are making out.

I never said that it was a bad script. I’m only here trying to help out and give Scott some constructive feedback. I believe that’s the reason he posted on the forum in the first place.
I wouldn’t be wasting my time if my intentions weren’t to help in some way.

I’ve tried being careful about my suggestions so that it wasn’t taken the wrong way (after all we are writing and not speaking face to face). I get the impression that Scott is only defending his script and not really hearing members out.

Everything that Scott has stated about his film, I understand and still guard my stance on the matter; the script needs to be more resolved. It may be that more focus is put into a mother/daughter relationship or that it shifts to the riots; or interweave the two major themes together – it’s ultimately up to Scott. I’m into all kinds of cinema and don’t believe in a ‘formal structure’ as such, but this script at the moment lacks substance and has what seems to be a structure that isn’t doing any good – I stress, in my opinion.

I can’t stop anyone from making their film though, nor would I want to.

[Scotness]

Thanks for all the feedback and time in reading the script guys - I spose that something I'm trying to say Steve is - well there's 2 things - one is to show the nature of society at the time, and the other and main one is to show that family relationships and love can extend in ways you may not have thought of - past the cultural and family practises of the day.

I didn't say that very well but you know what I mean.

I do agree with Ertugrul's comment 'is that it?' - in that it does end abruptly - and I'm going to extend the ending a bit just to show Rebecca taking what she now knows and feels out into her life. Hopefully that will extend and emphasis the main point it arrives at more - and give it more meaning and resolution ~ though it won't be adding a totally new kind of element to it, hopefully just doing what it already does more effectively.

Bjarne the doco is a great idea - don't know if it's something I'd do - but it is a great idea.

Matt I love this quote

working too much on a short doesn't guarantee that it becomes any better, but it's guaranteed that you will be sorry for some of the things you let people convince you of. ;-)

Anyway I'll just go ahead and make it and see what happens - apart from a bit of time and money there's nothing else on the line with it so I feel quite free to do it as I like, as any artist should. Though I must say I do appreciate all the feedback here because I have made some improvements to it based on that. (Perhaps not the kind you'd all want me too!), but some improvements none the less.

I worked out last night it would need 7 shooting days and I'm going to look at doing it over weekends from mid Feb to mid Mar next year.

Scot