Airport Security Paranoia and Film Cement???!!!

[aj]

Considering the terrorist plans as exposed until now paranoid is not the word to use. More like; better safe than sorry.

Books are classic containers for contrabande. Like guns or substances. In a movie it may seem farsought. In real-life it is threathening.

[PITIRRE]

Those countries that are too scared that think everybody is a treat to them is because they used the same differnet types of things to sabotage and make terrorist acts against others countries that opposed to them, for example:

1- If the FBI or CIA blow up a building in another country that killed several people, that's collateral damage defending the world security.

2- The same happen here (U.S.) is a terrorist act commit by ruthless people.

Sorry about the political talk, long live super 8.

[aj]

Sorry about the political talk, long live super 8.


_________________
"WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT WE WANT TO BE YANKEES OR PUERTO RICAN"

PEDRO ALBIZU CAMPOS

Considering your greetings signature line I suppose you don´t want to be US citizen and don´t want the benefits either. And rather be poor without rights at all.

Those countries in which you don´t want to be have never blown up random aircraft with hundreds of random people in them to make an unknown point.

Spare us complot phantasies (= nonsense)

[John_Pytlak]

Better make sure I don't take any cement with me, and I guess my Super 8 carts will have to go with the checked in luggage.

Everyone is very paranoid here in London today - you're not even allowed to take a book or a newspaper on a plane.

Don't put unprocessed film in your CHECKED baggage! --- it will likely be subjected to high intensity x-ray scanner type inspection:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/suppo ... 5.10&lc=en



Since they may not allow the film as carry-on baggage, I suggest you purchase your film in France, then mail it from there for processing. It sounds like even video cameras and media will not be allowed as carry-on baggage, and I'd avoid putting really expensive or delicate gear into checked baggage.

[jpolzfuss]

Hi,

it's getting worse:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/76647
(Sorry, I haven't found an English text. Short summary: on flights to Great Britain no technical gadgets allowed in carry on luggage: no gameboys, ... not even car-keys with remote control!)

Jörg

[aj]

Better make sure I don't take any cement with me, and I guess my Super 8 carts will have to go with the checked in luggage.

Everyone is very paranoid here in London today - you're not even allowed to take a book or a newspaper on a plane.

Don't put unprocessed film in your CHECKED baggage! --- it will likely be subjected to high intensity x-ray scanner type inspection:


Since they may not allow the film as carry-on baggage, I suggest you purchase your film in France, then mail it from there for processing. It sounds like even video cameras and media will not be allowed as carry-on baggage, and I'd avoid putting really expensive or delicate gear into checked baggage.

This is theoretical advice. There are no high intensity x-ray machines. Who can find personel to operate these. Everything works with snapshot exposure and amplified images nowadays.

The Kodak examples never show up in common use. I have travelled through many countries and airports and never got a trace of strangely exposed film material. Not even on 1600 or 400 ISO still films.

[John_Pytlak]

Better make sure I don't take any cement with me, and I guess my Super 8 carts will have to go with the checked in luggage.

Everyone is very paranoid here in London today - you're not even allowed to take a book or a newspaper on a plane.

Don't put unprocessed film in your CHECKED baggage! --- it will likely be subjected to high intensity x-ray scanner type inspection:


Since they may not allow the film as carry-on baggage, I suggest you purchase your film in France, then mail it from there for processing. It sounds like even video cameras and media will not be allowed as carry-on baggage, and I'd avoid putting really expensive or delicate gear into checked baggage.

This is theoretical advice. There are no high intensity x-ray machines. Who can find personel to operate these. Everything works with snapshot exposure and amplified images nowadays.

The Kodak examples never show up in common use. I have travelled through many countries and airports and never got a trace of strangely exposed film material. Not even on 1600 or 400 ISO still films.

Those sample images were generated by scanning film with a CTX-5500 baggage inspection device, used for CHECKED baggage at many airports. This kind of fogging can and DOES happen with checked baggage:

http://www.i3a.org/itip.html

Just because you have been lucky in not experiencing fogged film in checked baggage, others have not been as fortunate.

[audadvnc]

I find it rather amazing that a random user like aj would contradict a representative of Kodak on technical matters related to film, based merely on his own good fortune. (It's like saying, "I've never been in a tornado, therefore tornadoes can not exist"). Especially after being shown evidence by that Kodak rep.

Should you or I consider ourselves more of an authority on film technology than John Pytlak? What do you think "acknowledged expert" means, anyway?

[John_Pytlak]

I find it rather amazing that a random user like aj would contradict a representative of Kodak on technical matters related to film, based merely on his own good fortune. (It's like saying, "I've never been in a tornado, therefore tornadoes can not exist"). Especially after being shown evidence by that Kodak rep.

Should you or I consider ourselves more of an authority on film technology than John Pytlak? What do you think "acknowledged expert" means, anyway?

Don't just take my word for it, here is the official notice posted at USA airports:

http://www.i3a.org/pdf/itip_warning.pdf

And you can order a copy of the i3a ITIP industry report on the CTX scanner:

http://www.i3a.org/pdf/resource_order_form.pdf

http://www.i3a.org/itip.html

The International Imaging Industry Association (I3A) in cooperation with the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has re-issued the warning to airline passengers carrying film: hand carry your unprocessed film — do not put it in checked baggage.
The TSA has upgraded its ability to detect explosive devices that a terrorist may place aboard a commercial aircraft. While the imaging industry is in agreement with increased security measures that protect air travelers, the crew and aircraft, we also serve to protect consumer's precious photo memories.

The I3A and TSA guidelines urge travelers to:


Never pack unprocessed film in checked luggage;
Store all film and single-use cameras in clear plastic or mesh bags that fit in carry-on bags;
Remove film and single-use cameras from carry-on bags and request a hand inspection of these items whenever carry-on luggage is subjected to high-intensity x-ray security scanning (hand inspection requests are permitted under Transportation Security Administration regulations);
For x-ray scanners used for carry-on baggage request a hand inspection for film and single use cameras ISO 1000 speed and higher;
Request a hand inspection for ISO 800 speed and lower film and single-use cameras when they are subjected to 5 or more scans on normal X-ray scanning equipment.
No precautions are necessary for unloaded film cameras or digital cameras.

[jean]

just to get back to the airport topic, it seems that the days are gone when we could take a silly pic through the airplane's window, let alone with a weird looking super8 camera.

I am however looking forward to the days we're only allowed to board in underwear. A flight to ibiza then must be awful lot of fun, and nobody has to be afraid of being caught on a cellphone cam and ridiculed for eternity on the web!

An overseas flight with business folks however will be the ultimate experience of utter boredom and will certainly traumatize many. You best prepare in advance, just sit down and stare at the wall for an hour. Then raise the dose until you can easily sit still for 8 hours without the need of the slightest bit of distraction.

I've overheard that asian monks are very good at this.

And in the end it's all for the birds, since I don't know what would keep them from bringing explosives in the regular luggage? So in the end we wont be allowed to bring anything at all on a plane. Could be a huge relief for some, but also defeat the purpose of the trip alltogether alltogehter.

But I'm afraid that it won't matter at all because focus will just shift to easier targets like trains and public transport..

[reflex]

Books are classic containers for contrabande. Like guns or substances. In a movie it may seem farsought. In real-life it is threathening.

It makes little sense to start banning things like bottles of water and all carry-on baggage *after* a terrorist plot is uncovered.

Most of the security "precautions" do more to reassure nervous travellers than they do to protect an aircraft. After all, teenagers have been using fake ID to get into night clubs for years, so why couldn't terrorists do the same thing? Having airport staff glance at a piece of plastic with a photo on it doesn't do much to guarantee that the person is not dangerous.

A decision to ban carry-on luggage (including third-party food and water) on aircraft would be especially problematic, because North American airlines have eliminated free food service on nearly all flights and passengers will have to purchase expensive bottled water and pricey sandwiches on-board. It also means that I cannot spend the 4 hour flight from Houston to Calgary working -- no computer, no papers.

[aj]

The subject has been discussed many times and is quite moot. Nobody here experencied genuine x-ray fogging of his/her film nor have have I met anybody in real life. Magazine articles have always been with exapmples provided by manufacterer (and surrounded with lead-lined-bag-advertisements)

The Kodak info and examples are old and have been shown before and repeatedly. Kodak stays on the safe side (for themselves) and places responsibilty with the end-user with disclaimers american lawyer style. Much as with the annoucements around the stopping the K40 processing. Use a certified lab etcetc. Otherwise Kodak cannot garantee etcetc. This while they know there will be none shortly.

I thought mr Pytlak in the past was expert on application and development of cine film and hardly on storage and transport of standard current films. He quotes from public Kodak consumer info.

BTW Where can people nowadays buy quantities of specialized film while travelling? Where can I get 20pcs of 35mm Portra or such. Due to the digital onslaught plenty of shops have quit selling film (still and cine) al together. Some usable advice there. I.e. it is just pro forma.

BTW I my experience it is quite impossible to not have your films x-rayed. Hand inspection is not enough and they (security) explictily want to see through the (35mm) cartridges. Oh, and still no fog.

BTW Postal parcels are not X-rayed. Should anybody want to bring that up, again.

[reflex]

The subject has been discussed many times and is quite moot. Nobody here experencied genuine x-ray fogging of his/her film nor have have I met anybody in real life.

Would you like me to send you a few rolls of film fogged by airport scanners? One of my friends recently ran an unintentional "experiment" on a trip from Australia through LAX. The checked rolls were partially fogged, the rolls in the hand baggage were fine.

[you could argue that the checked baggage might have been exposed to extreme temperatures, I suppose. That wouldn't explain the similarity between the damage and the examples John posted, though.]

[aj]

The subject has been discussed many times and is quite moot. Nobody here experencied genuine x-ray fogging of his/her film nor have have I met anybody in real life.

Would you like me to send you a few rolls of film fogged by airport scanners? One of my friends recently ran an unintentional "experiment" on a trip from Australia through LAX. The checked rolls were partially fogged, the rolls in the hand baggage were fine.

[you could argue that the checked baggage might have been exposed to extreme temperatures, I suppose. That wouldn't explain the similarity between the damage and the examples John posted, though.]

It is still nobody here Heresay, friend of friend etcetc.


Believe as you like, do as you like.

[John_Pytlak]

The subject has been discussed many times and is quite moot. Nobody here experencied genuine x-ray fogging of his/her film nor have have I met anybody in real life. Magazine articles have always been with exapmples provided by manufacterer (and surrounded with lead-lined-bag-advertisements)

The Kodak info and examples are old and have been shown before Kodak stays on the safe side (for themselves) and places responsibilty with the end-user with disclaimers american lawyer style. Much as with the annoucements around the stopping the K40 processing. Use a certified lab etcetc. Otherwise Kodak cannot garantee etcetc. This while they know there will be none shortly.

I thought mr Pytlak in the past was expert on application and development of cine film and hardly on storage and transport of standard current films. He quotes from public Kodak consumer info.

BTW Where can people nowadays buy quantities of specialized film while travelling? Where can I get 20pcs of 35mm Portra or such. Due to the digital onslaught plenty of shops have quit selling film (still and cine) al together. Some usable advice there. I.e. it is just pro forma.

BTW I my experience it is quite impossible to not have your films x-rayed. Hand inspection is not enough and they (security) explictily want to see through the (35mm) cartridges. Oh, and still no fog.

BTW Postal parcels are not X-rayed. Should anybody want to bring that up, again.

The greatest risk is CHECKED baggage, where the high intensity scanners are most likely to be used. The x-ray conveyers used for CARRY-ON baggage are low dose, and will usually not cause noticeable damage to film for a single pass, but the doses add up with repeated passes, and some machines may not be well calibrated. Always better to request a hand inspection.

The professional filmmakers that I help HAVE experienced film fogging with film that is shipped as CHECKED baggage, and occasionally as carry-on baggage that got x-rayed. You have just been lucky, not wise. :roll: