shooting new Plus-x & Tri-X with old cameras

[SKJ]

Does anyone have advice or experience about shooting the new Plus X and Tri-X emulsions with older S8 cameras? In my case I use mostly an Elmo 1012 or a Bauer 715. But now that the emulsions are forumulated a for a bit faster ASA, I wonder how they expose, or how to compensate for that in processing....

Thanks!

Stephen Kent Jusick

[gianni1]

All of the super 8 cameras are older cameras... even the newest ones. I'll take a shot at this question from the automatic exposure perspective. You cams don't need buttons cells (I've got the 1012 S-XL), you may need to use +/- exposure compensation depending on your choice of film stock. I've never shot B&W in it so sombody else say how much to compensate please. I think it's ok to err on over exposure, but not under exposure, but that's for Color Negative films (correct me on this). Don't use the daylight filter in the camera with B&W film. See the wiki comment about it at http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Elmo_1012_S-XL

Most recent camera just use pen batteries to drive the motor and meter, the older ones use button cells for the meter. My Russian Zenit Quarz 1x8S-1 (2) use button cells for the light meter, but requires the user to set f stops manually, thus camera works o.k. without the button cells. The AA only cameras work ok in manual mode, if you operate the fstops. But that tends to be a chore or a pleasure depending if you are into manual controls or prefer automatic exposure.

For completeness, regarding light meter cameras that use button cells, just replace the cells with 1.5v or a stack of two 1.5's wrapped in cardboard, tape and some foil for filler. Some prefer hearing aid batteries, however I believe the goddess of 8mm film stock lattitude may to forgive you as long as you don't use the daylight filter in the camera with B&W film. The luxurious use (You can find on http://www.onsuper8.org) a European Super 8 camera button cell bypass modification service, which powers the light meter with AA's.


Gianni

[audadvnc]

The Bauer S709/715XL are 40/160 cameras that can and should be converted for manual ASA adjustment. I implemented the change in a half hour - look at the Super8wiki for directions. The S709/715 lightmeter runs off the same AA batteries as the motor, so no button cells are used.

I align the ASA by measuring a scene with the camera's lightmeter and comparing against a known reference (such as another camera with proper reading for a given ASA, or an external lightmeter).

[Actor]

Does anyone have advice or experience about shooting the new Plus X and Tri-X emulsions with older S8 cameras? In my case I use mostly an Elmo 1012 or a Bauer 715. But now that the emulsions are forumulated a for a bit faster ASA, I wonder how they expose, or how to compensate for that in processing....

Thanks!

Stephen Kent Jusick

I have the Elmo 612 which I'm told is the same as the 1012 except for the lens. The camera sees both Plus-X and Tri-X as ASA 100, meaning the Plus-X is exposed correctly and the Tri-X is overexposed by 1 stop (bad new for reversal). Cutting a filter notch in the Tri-X cartridge should fool the camera into thinking it's ASA 160 and reduce the overexposure to 1/3 stop. (Still too much IMHO, unless you have the lab pull process.) The notch should be centered 1 inch (2.5 cm) below the locator slot and about 1/4 inch (6 mm) wide.

[ccortez]

The Bauer S709/715XL are 40/160 cameras that can and should be converted for manual ASA adjustment. I implemented the change in a half hour - look at the Super8wiki for directions. The S709/715 lightmeter runs off the same AA batteries as the motor, so no button cells are used.

I align the ASA by measuring a scene with the camera's lightmeter and comparing against a known reference (such as another camera with proper reading for a given ASA, or an external lightmeter).

Now that's good news -- I've been considering selling the 715XL, but haven't done so b/c I still have a box full of K40 to get through ASAP. If I can mod it to work with any ASA, it ain't goin' nowhere.

Here's what I got from the super8wiki page:

Super 8 Man called this "the Cadillac of cameras". The big deal with this camera is its lens; the Angenieux 6-90mm that was originally designed for the high end Beaulieu, but didn't make it to regular production as the lens was too expensive. The hype about this lens is valid: it takes very sharp pictures, even when wide open, a significant improvement over most Super 8 cameras. And of course it is a 15x zoom, which gives you plenty of reach on the telephoto end. The registration is steady, dependent of course on the condition of the S8 cartridge you use. The downside is its ASA 40/160 limitation; it needs an aftermarket modification to allow for lightmeter exposure sensitivity compensation, such as is found on the Nikon R8/10 cameras. It's a cheap and easy mod; about $2 in parts from Radio Shack and a half hour of time.

The camera has some computer driven timers which allow the shooter to get into the scene before the film starts rolling. Maybe it was useful in the home movie days, I've never used it.

It's a large camera with a big lens, and isn't very appropriate for inconspicuous handheld shooting. Bauer placed the tripod adapter way back by the eyepiece, a rather odd location. The frame and many internal parts are some precision moulded high-tech plastic, possibly polycarbonate, the sides are metal. Internally it's a complicated machine and isn't easy to work on. The original belts will go bad eventually, aren't available from Bauer anymore, and replacement requires strenuous efforts from the DYI technician. But if it's working properly, and you can set exposure to your needs, the S715XL is a very good camera indeed.

Can you be more specific about which $2 worth of parts and what I should do with that 1/2 hour of time?

[audadvnc]

In addition to that page, I also wrote another:

http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Bauer:_ ... 15XL_meter

Somebody else placed a warning at the top of the page that if you screw it up you can wreck the lightmeter or camera, which is true I suppose, but my opinion is that the potential benefit of the modification was great enough to risk the chance. As it happened I did not have in-depth knowledge of the camera or a schematic diagram, but I've worked in electronic repair and construction for years and had an idea of what to look for. And YOU, the user, do the precision adjustment for proper ASA speed, with a screwdriver, while watching the lightmeter's response for a known exposure setting.

Hope this helps.

[ccortez]

Many thanks, Robert.

I suppose it would be possible to attach a new dial to the outside -- replacing the need for the screwdriver -- mark the camera somewhere and mark the dial for the ASA multipliers. The screwdriver solution is simple though, and we like simple.

[audadvnc]

Many thanks, Robert.

I suppose it would be possible to attach a new dial to the outside -- replacing the need for the screwdriver -- mark the camera somewhere and mark the dial for the ASA multipliers. The screwdriver solution is simple though, and we like simple.

Your solution would result in something similar to the Beaulieu. But my conversion does not take account for the 40/160 switch, so you'll need two scales depending on the switch setting. A further improvement would be to use a logarithmic taper potentiometer rather than the linear taper pot I use; with my version all the sensitivity is at the lefthand side of the scale.

[ccortez]

Many thanks, Robert.

I suppose it would be possible to attach a new dial to the outside -- replacing the need for the screwdriver -- mark the camera somewhere and mark the dial for the ASA multipliers. The screwdriver solution is simple though, and we like simple.

Your solution would result in something similar to the Beaulieu. But my conversion does not take account for the 40/160 switch, so you'll need two scales depending on the switch setting. A further improvement would be to use a logarithmic taper potentiometer rather than the linear taper pot I use; with my version all the sensitivity is at the lefthand side of the scale.

I will have to implement your mod as soon as I get time. What a fine camera that will be -- a 715 XL-S with manual ASA setting!

Now... how can I add an internal 85B filter somehow using cheap kodak wratten material? Those 72mm filters for that biga** lens get pricey! ;)

Never mind, I'll just wait for the 100D (and 50D negative).