Post syncing wild sound

[jaxshooter]

I've heard with the advent of NLE this isn't the nightmare it used to be.I've been told that there exists a software that makes this quite easy.If you're shooting with a non crystal camera and say, a crystalled Nagra or MD recorder,slate the scene,how easy do you find it to post sync on the NLE?

[kettuz]

Well, I had no big problems with that at all, even though my editing software is quite crude (linux editing-- Cinelerra) and not really the best option for such fine work. Camera was Bauer A512 and speeches not too long, but long enough

And I didn't even use the slate for syncing in the editor... 8O

[Scotness]

If they're short little takes you might be right - longer takes you won't be - you'll need some audio resolving software (if you don't have a crystal synched camera) search the forum here for audio resloving software - Mattias and Cranium have each written some programmes to do this.

Scot

[twotoneska]

My final student film was shot on a non-crystal Nizo, and a Nagra IV, edited in Final Cut, and I didn't really have any problem synching, it just took a REALLY long time.

[jaxshooter]

My final student film was shot on a non-crystal Nizo, and a Nagra IV, edited in Final Cut, and I didn't really have any problem synching, it just took a REALLY long time.

Did you have to do alot of adding/subtracting frames?I've done this old school on a Steenbeck.Same principal I assume?

[twotoneska]

On the picture side, I found it was sometimes necessary to cut a frame out here and there, but on the audio side, I mainly just matched the clap and slate at the beginning, and the synch would hold for a little while, and then when it drifted, I would go back a few frames, cut, slide it over, re-synch it with the lips, and fill in the blank space with matching ambient sound. It was time consuming overall, but once I did it a few times, the whole process became fairly simple and quick, it was just the fact that I had some masters that had a lot of drift, so they took a while to fix.

[Mitch Perkins]

On the picture side, I found it was sometimes necessary to cut a frame out here and there, but on the audio side, I mainly just matched the clap and slate at the beginning, and the synch would hold for a little while, and then when it drifted, I would go back a few frames, cut, slide it over, re-synch it with the lips, and fill in the blank space with matching ambient sound. It was time consuming overall, but once I did it a few times, the whole process became fairly simple and quick, it was just the fact that I had some masters that had a lot of drift, so they took a while to fix.

I can vouch for this approach, (drift &slide), but found that cutting even one frame of picture was totally noticeable, unless it was end of shot...

Do you have a secret?

Mitch

[twotoneska]

Do you have a secret?

Mainly just that I did it very little. It was always a last resort, and sometimes I spent half an hour trying to figure out which frame I could cut out and not make the edit jump. I always kind of picked a frame at random, and if it didn't work, I would just replace it, and try another. Sometimes I tryed dozens of frames just to get the synch right on a single word. It's tough, and not for those without patience, but, luckily, I was able to do most of my "jostling" (as one instructor called it), in the sound and not in the picture.

I have also "cheated" once or twice by actually speeding up or slowing down a set of frames (for example, speeding up five frames by a certain percentage to get the drift to synch back up) I would only recommend this in the most severe situations, because its a lot of hassle. Everything is basically arbitrary, and you just have to experiment. For example, you may pick between five and ten frames to speed up or slow down. Once you figure out how many frames you need, then you have to figure out the percentage you're going to speed it up or slow it down. It takes a LOT of time, but for those pesky moments that won't match, it may be the only way. Of course, if you go online or back to film, you might be screwed.

[audadvnc]

Mattias (and others) have a time-stretching routine for audio files that can help non-sync'ed recorders work together at NLE. For best results you'll want a slate clap at the head and tail of each take.

[zaefod]

Shaving off frames here, sliding audio back there, seems like a big headache. Say if you shoot a 10 minute short at 8:1. YOu would have 80 minutes of material to fiddle around with, trying to get it in sync. My point is, after doing it once, was it worth the effort and time spent? My time is very valualble to me. Wild syncing even a ten minute short could indeed create a few grey hairs or at least give you an ulcer. If you have no choice, then there you are, but if you do, isn't it really worth saving up the 500 or so to have your camera synced? Especially If you are going to do this alot, I would think so. If only occasionally, then maybe it is worth it, but it all seems like a really big hassle. How long did it take you all who have done this to sync your footage. When I have shot with wild audio that I was going to try to sync up later, I always did head and tail slates, it helped a bit.

:?:

[Evan Kubota]

Syncing the wild sound probably doesn't take as long as foleying everything from scratch ;) My next project will be done Mariachi-style with sound recorded after each take (or before). I may use them just as temp tracks to build the foley around, or keep them. Depends on how it turns out.

[audadvnc]

Shaving off frames here, sliding audio back there, seems like a big headache.... My point is, after doing it once, was it worth the effort and time spent? My time is very valualble to me.

Filmmaking is a process. You have to love the intricacies to love the medium. Otherwise why bother? Just shoot with your DVX666 demon camcorder. Quick, easy, and forgettable. :twisted: But even then -

Have you ever worked on a commercial level audio or video project? They don't - just - happen. A lot of time and money gets burned up in the post production studio. That's why films cost so much to make - it's never dead simple.

[mattias]

Shaving off frames here, sliding audio back there, seems like a big headache.... My point is, after doing it once, was it worth the effort and time spent? My time is very valualble to me.

Filmmaking is a process. You have to love the intricacies to love the medium.

i agree completely. what do you mean was it worth the effort and time spent? shooting is also often a headache and so is editing even without having to do wild sync. is that generelly rewarding to you? i don't understand how somebody who values their time so much would even consider making movies on super 8 with wild sync in the first place. :-)

/matt

[Evan Kubota]

His time is probably too valuable to spend making films If you enjoy filmmaking, why does the time matter?

[mattias]

How long did it take you all who have done this to sync your footage.

those 80 minutes you mention would probably take me from a couple of hours up to a day. a better approach is to just do the parts that end up in the film and just use loosely synced audio while editing, maybe with a small correction here and there if you have to cut on a certain word. just razor blading and syncing up each line of dialogue takes maybe an hour for a 10 minute film. considering that you probably spent a week editing it it's not so bad...

(btw i'm pretty fast. double the numbers for a "normal" person) ;-)

/matt