ive in a kodak cinematography course as a refresher. one of the stocks that we are using is the new unreleased vision2 50D. i havent seen the results yet but im hearing from the guys that in terms of grain its truely remarkable. it also gets data in the blacks to a large degree. not as contrasty as the old 50D (this is ofcourse not ecessarily what we want). at the very least it sounds like the small gage film user will benefit greatly from it.
im going to try and grab a roll end of the stuff for testing purposes. i want to simulate the super duper8 frame through masking and shoot to this area, then have it telecinedto 16x9 so we can have an idea what this stock would look like in super8. the depressing thing is if i knew that one of the assistants yesterday was going to just yabk out 70 feet of the stuff and expose it to light (he didnt want to bother with the extra) i would have unloaded the mag myself and canned it. c'est la vie.
vision2 50D -- for those that care about negative
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
vision2 50D -- for those that care about negative
double super8!
Did they offer any hint that it may come out in S8? It sounds crazy, but this is a film that should be targeted at boosting the small guages before 35mm. If 35mm EXR stays on board, it may be preferred over 5201 in many cases.. grain improvement won't matter much there. I'm sure they will end up releasing it, would be crazy not to. just a matter if they want to deal with carting it before or after they rebuild their line in China.
"Give me gasoline and god dammit I'll gain ground with it!" George C Scott as Patton
"Give me gasoline and god dammit I'll gain ground with it!" George C Scott as Patton
100D and Vision 3 please
Hello,
I have got some cartridges (as custom loads = Pro8/01), and I should get soon a first test cartridge developed in ECN-2 in Chile.
I also expect that the stock will have a very interesting behaviour for small gauge shooting.
Once I get the test-roll I will project it through a Zeiss Movilux projector, and will do some enlargements to Ilfoflex paper (RA-4).
I will try to upload in this thread, a quick scan of the enlargement during November.
I wonder what this stock looks like in IMAX ?
Seriously, I think it is a new reference of comparison between film and electronic cinematography (at least for ISO 50 lighting conditions).
I think it is important to discuss about this new stock.
bye-bye
Daniel
I have got some cartridges (as custom loads = Pro8/01), and I should get soon a first test cartridge developed in ECN-2 in Chile.
I also expect that the stock will have a very interesting behaviour for small gauge shooting.
Once I get the test-roll I will project it through a Zeiss Movilux projector, and will do some enlargements to Ilfoflex paper (RA-4).
I will try to upload in this thread, a quick scan of the enlargement during November.
I wonder what this stock looks like in IMAX ?
Seriously, I think it is a new reference of comparison between film and electronic cinematography (at least for ISO 50 lighting conditions).
I think it is important to discuss about this new stock.
bye-bye
Daniel
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mattias
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while i tend to agree that many will keep using the exr for the unique look the main benefit of the new vision 2 seems to be that it cuts together seamlessly with the other vision2's. even though whether it really does or not is yet to be seen.T-Scan wrote:If 35mm EXR stays on board, it may be preferred over 5201 in many cases.. grain improvement won't matter much there.
/matt
well, we got our film back yesterday and had a look at the new stock on video. i have to say its gorgeous. grain? what grain? it had a sharper feel than the exr 50D, if you can beleive it. the colour range was seemless with the toher stocks (if you like the idea of all stocks looking the same). it did seem to bring more details from the blacks then before. considerably so. gone is the old 50D that had that contrasty reversal stock look. we actually discussed this as a problem since so many people liked that aspect of the stock. perhaps doing a bleach bypass and colour compensation for the bleach bypass look will get it close to the old 50D look if thats what you want. there are lotsa people pissed off that the old stuff is going. i should find out tomorrow if i get any short ends. im hoping i get 400 ft of the stuff since i think they have too many rolls to begin with. then ill do the test for the s8 frame which will simulate a ds8 run (due to the better registration compared to carts). in terms of picture quality? im expecting the result to be a bit better than the look you got from the old vision 200t in 16mm.
double super8!
That’s great to hear. I personally love EXR 50D and was pretty choked when I heard Kodak is planning to discontinue it. But when I heard they were actually planning to replace it with a new Vision2 50D stock, I have to admit I was pretty excited about it. I am very impressed with the Vision2 stocks. Not so much in super8 format (a little to grainy for me) but they does look great in 16mm. If 7201 is an improvement over 7245, I'm all for it. I hate to see 7245 go, I love it’s color and contrast. But from what I’ve heard, EXR 50 will still around for a few more years. Kodak has updated there site with some information on Vision2 50D.
KODAK VISION2 50D 5201 / 7201
I really hope Kodak will release this film in super8 format, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
KODAK VISION2 50D 5201 / 7201
I really hope Kodak will release this film in super8 format, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
For anyone scared off by all this talk about the grain in s8 vision stocks check out my stills shot using 500T at f1.4!
http://filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/v ... 2132598b57
Pretty impressive stuff. If I can get this sharpness and grain at 500ASA I ma expecting wonders from the 50D in super-8. As I said before it might even justify a 1080i/720p transfer...possibly...we'll see.
Someone please post footage!
http://filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/v ... 2132598b57
Pretty impressive stuff. If I can get this sharpness and grain at 500ASA I ma expecting wonders from the 50D in super-8. As I said before it might even justify a 1080i/720p transfer...possibly...we'll see.
Someone please post footage!
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Carlos 8mm
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several things.
no, they didnt say anything about the stock being put in carts. they only really know about professional applications of stock and as far as most people are concerned s8 isnt considered professional.
as for the grain, its much smaller in the vision2 stocks so itll look better in s8 than the previous stocks by far.
as for the grain structure, the 50D in s8 will have similar characteristics of a 200asa filmstock in 16mm from five years ago, at least thats the math the kodak guys did. funny, i was more conservative with my estimate, i assumed a 250 asa. if you do maxi8/wide gate8 then id think it would be similar to a stock in 16mm of 175asa as of 5 years ago
no, they didnt say anything about the stock being put in carts. they only really know about professional applications of stock and as far as most people are concerned s8 isnt considered professional.
as for the grain, its much smaller in the vision2 stocks so itll look better in s8 than the previous stocks by far.
as for the grain structure, the 50D in s8 will have similar characteristics of a 200asa filmstock in 16mm from five years ago, at least thats the math the kodak guys did. funny, i was more conservative with my estimate, i assumed a 250 asa. if you do maxi8/wide gate8 then id think it would be similar to a stock in 16mm of 175asa as of 5 years ago
double super8!
I find this hard to believe but if true it would make this the first HD s8 stock. Exciting stuff. Where did M'Lord go? wasnt he getting some rolls made up?francis wrote:as for the grain structure, the 50D in s8 will have similar characteristics of a 200asa filmstock in 16mm from five years ago, at least thats the math the kodak guys did. funny, i was more conservative with my estimate, i assumed a 250 asa. if you do maxi8/wide gate8 then id think it would be similar to a stock in 16mm of 175asa as of 5 years ago
its not that hard to believe at all really. you just have to do the math. the following hypothesis is based on all things being equal.
at first i was looking at the 100T in super8. the frame being a quarter of of the 16mm frame made me think it would have a similar grain structure to a 500asa filmstock. i just rounded up. i was close to my guess for when i was talking to kodak lab guys they suggested it would have a similar look to a 16mm 400asa stock from 5 years ago. i then mentioned the wide gate8 conversion adding a 13% tighter grain they then just took that much off the asa and said i was looking at a 340 asa stock from 5 years ago. its a rough guestimate but he was rather sure itd be close.
so, grab the new 50D, multiply by 4, so you have a 200asa stock from 5 years ago. go wide gate8 and reduce the number by 13%. so lets then say a 170asa stock from 5 years ago in 16mm. either way you do the math, its sounds great. but the stock is only as good as the glass, and with such a small gage i say throw a prime on there. thats whats going to make the big difference in sharpness. and the newer the glass the hotter the pics. im hoping and praying i can do my tests (if i can even get the stock) with modern glass. i know somebody with a PL mount to c mount adaptor. now i just have to find some PL mount glass!
at first i was looking at the 100T in super8. the frame being a quarter of of the 16mm frame made me think it would have a similar grain structure to a 500asa filmstock. i just rounded up. i was close to my guess for when i was talking to kodak lab guys they suggested it would have a similar look to a 16mm 400asa stock from 5 years ago. i then mentioned the wide gate8 conversion adding a 13% tighter grain they then just took that much off the asa and said i was looking at a 340 asa stock from 5 years ago. its a rough guestimate but he was rather sure itd be close.
so, grab the new 50D, multiply by 4, so you have a 200asa stock from 5 years ago. go wide gate8 and reduce the number by 13%. so lets then say a 170asa stock from 5 years ago in 16mm. either way you do the math, its sounds great. but the stock is only as good as the glass, and with such a small gage i say throw a prime on there. thats whats going to make the big difference in sharpness. and the newer the glass the hotter the pics. im hoping and praying i can do my tests (if i can even get the stock) with modern glass. i know somebody with a PL mount to c mount adaptor. now i just have to find some PL mount glass!
double super8!
Hola Carlos,
I should be developing there next week.
Francis : Interesting to read your comments on the stock. I think that's it.
After a bit more than 150 years of photo-chemical development it was finally possible to get that quality in that small frame area. (of course actually that would be true for low speed stock only). Now the problem is the film-scanner front that hopefully shoud be updated to take in account the improvement in small gauges.
Concerning the Optex PL to C-Mount, mine doesn't give me focus normally with the Pro8 Classic camera, I have to stop down to F 8 to get focus... probably the adapter is a bit too long or too short for this camera.... but actually not really a problem for those exteriors shot I am planning to do with the "01", as we have a lot of sun. We are doing first a focus lens test with super 8 7265 to choose which Ultra Primes to be used.
Chaolin,
Daniel
Well not really, but there is a lab in Santiago that process 35mm and 16mm in ECN-2, that have already developed a first super8 neg roll some months ago and are quite open minded to accept to develop some more rolls, but one have to give them enough time (probably one week or so) in order for them to develop it as a special run, without disturbing the 35mm and 16mm footage. I will keep you informed on what's going on in terms of quality etc...Is there in Chile a Lab that process Super 8 negative film?
I should be developing there next week.
Francis : Interesting to read your comments on the stock. I think that's it.
After a bit more than 150 years of photo-chemical development it was finally possible to get that quality in that small frame area. (of course actually that would be true for low speed stock only). Now the problem is the film-scanner front that hopefully shoud be updated to take in account the improvement in small gauges.
Concerning the Optex PL to C-Mount, mine doesn't give me focus normally with the Pro8 Classic camera, I have to stop down to F 8 to get focus... probably the adapter is a bit too long or too short for this camera.... but actually not really a problem for those exteriors shot I am planning to do with the "01", as we have a lot of sun. We are doing first a focus lens test with super 8 7265 to choose which Ultra Primes to be used.
Chaolin,
Daniel
im doing a simulated test with a 16mm camera. the telecine will be zooming in to take the size of the super8 frame. ill be borrowing the PL to c mount adaptor and shooting on a bolex. i might even be borrowing an eclair to do the test on. all of this is for the purpose of me seeing what the stuff will look like on a bolex ds8 since im still working out how to get ds8 film stock. using a 16mm camera will get the registration right ensure the use of decent primes as opposed to older zooms. im trying to get a sense of what the stuff will look like in ds8. i personally love the idea of getting processing done anywhere in the world that does 16mm instead of the hassle of who does 8mm processing!
double super8!